doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com JP Sauer& Sohn Suhl

I just bought a JP Sauer and Sohn shotgun. I would like to know the year it was made, the serial is 3389xx. It has 28.5 inch barrels,just extractors and has a english style stock. It has double locking lugs on the barrel and also A&D locking bolt. Nice lite 12 ga. shotgun. I have not measured the chokes so don't know. If you can help me with some information on this shotgun I would appreciate it greatly.

Regards
M.L.

ML:

The bulk of GECO marked Sauers are in the 322,000 to 323,000 range but yours falls in the Luftwaffe contract range and GECO 338,9xx to 339,999 range in 1942-1944. Could you post some pics of the watertable and flats? Some sources give 1923 for the date mark and some give reference to the German law of 1924, but there should be a date stamp on the barrel flats.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for the information. I think is has the German Eagle proof mark. I don't know how to post pictures on this site or they would already have been posted. There is a 142 stamped on the flats. Could have been made in 1942 but the workmanship is very good. I thought it was made a bit earlier. It has 28.5 inch Krupp steel barrels , didn't figure a war time nation would use the best steel in shotgun production. I might add that all the serial numbers match. I am curious why there is more interest in German gun and less in the Spanish ones.

Regards
M.L.

The 1 is probably January and the 42 you are right 1942. I have one 353 March 1953. It seems pre war guns are very desirable when in nice shape. It may be chambered for 2 1/2" shell (65) or 2 3/4" (70) Nice find.

M.L.:

Sweep is correct and the "142" would be January 1942. Yours must be serial number 338900 or 338901 because 338902 is dated 6.42.

The reason for the German longarm interest in my opinion is that since the 17th century, German has always had some type of consumer protection in the form of a city, state or proofhouse mark. For example in the mid 17th century, a citizen of the city of Suhl was employed to inspect and fire a couple rounds thru every tube produced there. If he lived or considered the tube or barrel to be of the quality associated w/ the City of Suhl, then he put the the mark of "SVL" and later "SUL" stamp on the tube. Prior to the 19th century Spanish tubes/guns were held in high regard and it could have been due to the extent of the Spanish Netherlands which included Belgium. At any rate a proofhouse was established in 1844 in Eibar but like the French, the proof was purely voluntary. France's proof law was in effect until 1885 when Parliament passed a bill that cancelled obligatory proof. Both France and Spain did not consider coming back to the compulsory table until the International Proof Conference in 1914. And then it was finally law in France on June 4th 1926 and in Spain in 1923. And let's not forget Italy who joined the International Commission in 1920 and compulsory proof began on December 30, 1923. But Spain attempted to do more with less. The used inferior raw material on some weapons which lead to their reptuation of building two types of weapons: some of the best and some of the worst. And at times its difficult to differentiate the two.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I was told that it was not unusual for many Luftwaffe fighter & bomber aircraft to carry a side x side gun in the cockpit for use as a survival weapon. Your eagle in the mark may be standing on a swastika if the gun was wartime production.

Best Regards, George

I don't understand the term A&D locking bolt. I thought most if not all Sauers used the Purdey double underbit and the Greener cross bolt!!

I read in one of the military book club articles that the Luftwaffe shotguns were a drilling - vierling,Ja? and were 12 gauge with a std. Mauser 8x57 chambering- apparently they were carried in a aluminum survival case containing ammo and cleaning supplies, in case the pilot or crew member had to jump- I am sure several came back home in GI duffle bags-saw one on GUN LIST within past year- asking strong 4 figures with the case. I saw a Sauer und Sohn 12 ga. side-by last week at a small gun shop- top bolt and Purdey double underbites- cheek piece (for a righty) and sling swivels- DT and ejectors- and cocking indicators on the frame "boss" area- both sides of course-believe 28 and a fraction barrels- (metric) very nice weapon- didn't get proof mark data or serial number- shop owner said he checked serial numbers on a chart and determined it was pre-WW11 in mfg. in Suhl I believe. Very nice shotgun-although the sling swivels and the check piece- for a drilling with the rifle underbarrel- yes- but for a straight shotgun, not exactly my "cup of tea" or "mug of Steinhagen lager either" to each his own I guess-all in all, a fine shotgun. RWTF

They,the Luftwaffe survival drillings, where made by Sauer,a M30, but the rifle is in 9.3X74R,shotgun was 12.Here is one in the case (usually green) with the accesories.They where used by the pilots over North Africa.I think the serial number ranges is in the 336XXX range thou.Nice guns,nothing but the best for Gorings boys
I can remember when they went for 5-6K,this one will probably bring 25-30K !

http://www.juliaauctions.com/auctions/252/images/org/promo133.jpg

Dave-you are correct-the rifle cal. was std. at the 9mm (a friend has a Super Grade M54- 9mm- was redone into a M70 in .35 Whelen-most of the drillings I have seen were in 16 ga. and some-not all, were either in 7x57mm or 8x57mm-I am sure one in Mint condition with the aluminum case, cleaning supplies, issue ammo and papers would bring the figures you cited in today's gun market-If you want an insight- albiet bent by fiction a bit- read the book "The Eagle Has Landed" about a 'black ops" plan by Himmle and Rader (chief of the Abwehr then) to do an airborne drop into Northern G.B. and kidnap Churchill-rumored to have spent a week-end at some castle get-away- the Luftwaffe pilot who gets "volunteed" to fly the modified Junkers was twice passed over for the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves- even though he was a Jagstaffel (squadron leader) with 20 plus kills- because he told Herman "Fat Boy" Goring that the Brit's Supermarine Spitfire was a superior fighter to the ME-109's he flew into combat--also of interest to me was the accurate description of the difference in the parachute harness rigging used by the Germans, as opposed to the type used by the Allies- In my knife collection I have a WW11 Henkels "Falschirmjaeger" neck knife-release and gravity drop and lock the razor sharp blade to cut the risers free- very ingenious.. RWTF!!