doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Charles Daly Hammergun Id

I would appreciate any info on the maker and manufacture date of a 12 ga damascus Daly hammergun without proof marks or much in the way of markings. The SN is 16004.Other than the SN on the bbl flats there is "TP". On the lt bbl is "AK" or maybe AR or AB? next to rib and "13" centered on bbl. Rt. bbl has "G" next to rib. The watertable has only the SN. I have attempted ot link some photos. I will check back tomorrow. All sound info is appreciated. Thanks, Erick
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/gunner000_photos/CharlesDalySN16004020.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/gunner000_photos/CharlesDalySN16004015.jpg
IMG]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/gunner000_photos/CharlesDalySN16004028.jpg[/IMG]

Erick,

I must have read right by your post earlier as another BBS member pointed it out to me via email. Sorry about that :-)

The origin of the earliest Prussian Daly hammer guns is still pretty murky so I what I can provide is not definitive. Based on what is recorded in the database, it is clear that Charles Daly retailer Schoverling, Daly, and Gales (SD&G) used more than one maker for the early hammer guns.

I can tell you that there are 5 Daly hammer guns in the database with similar features as your gun that are within a couple hundred numbers of your gun. FWIW, one of the notes on one of the guns suggests it was made by Schilling, a well known Suhl-based maker. That all said, there is nothing in the marks on the action or barrel flats that jumped out to me provide that linkage. So all I can really give you in regard to the maker is a "not Heinrich Lindner, maybe V. Schilling".

As far as the year of production, I would estimate it at circa 1876. The gun does have a Scott spindle (introduced 1865) and also has the wedge forend fastener associated with earliest CD guns. Of course it does not have proof marks as these were not required until much later (1891). "Conventional" wisdom has that SD&G began retailing guns under the Charles Daly banner in 1875, but I think it may have actually been a couple years before that. That all said, I think 1876 is a reasonable estimate of the year of production based on the features of the gun and those features relative to other guns in the database..

It is a nice looking Daly! Enjoy your gun.

Ken

Ken, Thank-you so much for your response. It is very interesting. Now I just need to go find out what a 'scott spindle' is.
How detailed is your database Ken? This gun has 26" bbls which I found unusual. They appear to be uncut because to my amateur eye they touch and appear to have keels in place, although the front sight has been replaced with a brass screw.
I have another CD gun with a SN under 1100 (I think) that has a Jones underlever. I will try to post pictures sometime if you would care to comment on it as well.
Ken do you know if CD hammer shot guns were sequentially numbered? Or did each individual maker of CD guns start a new sequence of SNs; or did CD assign different SN ranges for different makers and/or different gauges as some american makers did?
Thank-you again, erick

Erick,

I'm heading out the door, but will respond later this weekend. I'd love to see the other Daly (photos are especially helpful) and should be able to provide a little more on that gun.

Ken

Erick,

The Scott spindle was patented by William Scott in 1865. It is the mechanism that horizontally connects the top lever to the Purdey double underbolt. The combination of the Westley Richards top lever, the Scott spindle, and the Purdey underbolt is probably the most common means to open and lock a shotgun. But it was still relatively new when your Daly was made.

The 26" barrels would be very unusual for that time period - never say never, but it would be unusual. What does the gun weigh BTW? The brass screw is of course a replacement for the ivory or brass bead that was original.

While there are over 275 Prussian Dalys in the database, there are less than 20 or so hammer guns - not a lot to work with really. The serial numbers vary greatly depending on the actual maker.

I'd love to see photos of your other Daly and hear how it is marked. #1100 would be an unusual serial number for an early Daly equipped with a Jones underlever.

Ken

Ken, I don't have much in the way of equipment but I will try to get out and weigh the gun. It is light and the chokes are open based on a dime. Open chokes and the brass screw for a replacement bead would lead me to think that the bbls were cut, but I think I mentioned the bbls touch and it looks like there are keels present at the end of the bbls. So who knows?
I will start another thread on the second CD.
I am surprised that there are not more CD hammer guns accounted for.
Thank you for the info thus far. Erick