doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Know nothing about?

Hi
Really a babe in the woods when it comes to old foreign doubles. Perhaps some members could look at this gun and give me their opinions and pointers as to what looks good versus a bad buy. Trying to learn about old doubles but don't find many here in Wisconsin. Any and all comments truly appreciated. This gun is on Gunbroker.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=93838482

That's a very nice chunk of wood and a nice looking gun as well. I don't know anything about Leige guns, but I do know that $1000 doesn't get you a whole lot of gun these days. Being 16 gauge makes it even nicer in my untrained eyes.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give you some useful info.

Mike;
I am simply not current enough on value to advise there. The gun is a pre 1924 by the proof marks. It is chambered for the 2 9/16" 65mm 16ga shell & should not be used with over the counter US 2 3/4" shells. Suitable shells can be obtained or loaded. I could not make out the bore size, but the marks should reveal them. Nominal 16ga bore would be 16.8 (.662") If this one be that, then chokes would be about .015" & .024" or about Mod & Imp Mod. It would appear to me the Dogs & Hogs are probably an etching, while the scrolls may be cut. Overall a nice looking gun & probablly reasonably well made. It has ejectors & the Anson forend latch.

It's in Switzerland?? Are you over seas? Do you have an FFL that can import it? I'm curious myself about how you would even get the gun here.

You picked one of the most complicated guns to try to buy. First is is not even in the US. Then you have to learn how to import it if you win the auction. If it is a bust you have almost no real chance to send it back, read the fine print. This is a bad crap shoot for one of the self appointed experts and a real adventure for one like yourself. I am not trying to pick on you.

In fact if I wanted to run a scam I would do so from overseas. Real hard for someone to find me and get their money back or to punch me in the nose. This seller looks as good as they get with almost 300 feedbacks and not one bad gripe. Not many dealers like that on the auction sites.

First buy only guns that you get to examine in person. The internet, for a new buyer, is almost the worst place for you to buy a gun. Go to a gun shops or visit several gun shows. Take someone along who knows what they are doing when you go to look at a gun. Do not fall in love with any gun. If you fall in love you will not note all the warts and dents that you must see when buying. Do not buy any fixer uppers.

Find either a nice shooter or a high condition newer gun to start with. Like trains, guns are not to be limited to the first one you see. They made thousands of them and another one will be along soon. So set a hard dollar limit for your first buy and wait until you find the right gun.

If you want a foreign gun do some research into them. Limit your search to one country or one maker. Far easier to become fluent in one gun maker than an entire group of makers. Have you looked at Darnes as a starting point. Solid built guns, lots of information and they are just different enough to be interesting to all who see them.

The gunbroker gun has a lot of external wear and grime. Is it pitted both on the surface and in the bores like the photos look like? Condition is not that great from what I can see. Engraving impresses us a lot because it is very expensive in todays cost but most guns were engraved for just a few dollars when made. Some of the best British guns cost less than three pounds to engrave when made. Fifteen dollars in the then current exchange rates of 1900. That was for full scroll work of the highest level. I would keep looking for now.

mark beasland is in wisconsin.before you go through the problems of import talk to mark/ mbabllc.com or mark if you are out there post your contact info mc

Mike, If you are looking for double guns in WI I will be at the show in Madison this Friday and Sat. I usually have 4 tables with about 50 doubles. If you are interested my contact info is on my website. My website is not up to date and I have much unlisted inventory. I have guns in all price ranges and would be glad to spend some time with you and answer any questions you have.

Thank You All
I wasn't so much convinced I wanted to buy this gun, but thought it would make a good test case re: the good and bad points to watch for as a neophyte buyer of the older guns.
Mike B.

Boy, that scroll work is so much nicer than anything you can get on a new gun. Why is it again that we can't get scroll work as nearly good as what was commonplace a century ago? Is this the definition of "progress"? Are things really "better" now than they were?

So many modern guns, guns that cost many thousands, have scroll work on them that looks "childish" compared to the older guns...

That gun you asked us to look at does have pretty scroll work. And to your point it is a good test case. But, yes, as KYJon stated, from the pictures, she looks pitted although that internal bore photo is so blurry and is almost useless except it does readily show corrosion pitting on the ends, suggesting pitted bores for sure.

I basically concur with the recommendations given to you. Befriend someone who knows "old foreign doubles", not just guns But beware of the talkers, the arrogant or showie or double speak type who have alot to say but have a difficult time remebering that he said the opposite a few sentences ago. Find a direct, knowledgeable guy and ask him to help you find a good entry foreign double gun. Also, from experience, I find some of the guys who are really into foreign doubles and have a ton of money do look down on a newbie and ONLY seem to be able to talk about five figure guns; not much help for a new guy who wants something around a $1000 or so.

I definitely agree to the strategy of visiting gun shops and seeing and holding as many guns as possible to help you decide what you like. I didn't realize how much I liked LC Smith's until I heard them call me from gunshop gun racks with 30-40 guns of all makes on them. Who knows, you may think you want a foreign double and then hear an old American call out your name. (hahaha)...But seriously, actually picking up any gun is much better than online, although as you stated you can use the online guns as valuable test cases. Although after a few online busts now I am re-thinking my purchasing strategy as well. Those darn photos can be misleading, perhaps as much as they can be telling sometimes.

Many Thanks Yogi et all:
As I said not many older doubles show up around here that aren't
much to be said for. I've garnered names and shops that may teach
me the essentials.
Thanks All for your help
Mike B.