doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC Model 21 vs. CSMC Fox

What are your opinions of the CSMC Model 21s vs. their Foxes? The prices aren't that different depending on what options you get. One advantage of the 21 is a second set of bbls is much cheaper. Although, I don't see an option for double triggers on the 21, does anyone know if that is possible?

Obviously in this price range lots of nice used guns are available but getting one built give you the option of getting it exactly the way you want it. You also don't have the low pressure ammo issues that many older guns have.

DH

IMHO if I wanted a custom made double for high volume shooting at clay targets I'd get the Model 21. If it is to be an elegant bird gun, I'd go for the much more beautiful and graceful Fox. To my eye, no matter how much nice engraving you put on it the slab-sided Model 21 just is not graceful. Funny I don't feel that way about Remington Model 1894s!!

I agree, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. I have a CSMC Fox and even with 30" bbls and a 15 3/4" lop, the gun weighs only 6.5 lbs in 16 gauge and 6.7 with the 20 gauge bbls. I use it for clays sometimes, but would not want to use it for high volume clays. If I wanted a dedicated clays and waterfowl gun, the 21 would be high on my list.

Don't discount the 21 as an upland carrying gun. My Win. 21 in 16 ga. weighs 6-3/4 lbs. with 14-3/4" LOP and 28" barrels, so I expect CSMC could build you one as light or lighter.

I do think the original 21 frames look better than the flat-sides.

I am partial to a 21, but you'll just have to get the one you like best. I am sure they guarantee both, so you will have a gun for the rest of your life either way. Tough choice.

I have seen older model 21s with double triggers, with and without ejectors.

Some of the Spanish makers offer a heavy SXS that people use for live birds. I have never felt one but would consider it if I had the change.

If I got the 21 I would get it with the original style frame which is an extra cost item from CSMC.

My thought is to have an all around gun that I can shoot clays with and hunt with. I shoot clays with my 6 1/4 lb 16 gauge quite a bit.

If I got the Fox it would either be a 12 or a 20. What is interesting about the 21 is I could get a 20 with a set of 16 gauge bbls. I would consider a slim beavertail on the 20 gauge bbls and use that for clays and high volume dove and use the 16 with a splinter for pheasant etc.

It is just a thought. I'm still not sure I'm going to go the new gun route vs. an old english gun. Either way it is looking to be just shy of 20K.

I know these three options are very different but I like all three types of guns for different reasons.

DH

They don't make the Fox in a 12 gauge.

Well, then I guess it would be a 20. I swear I once saw one, must have been an upgraded gun rather than a new one.

I was on the fence between 12 and 20 as it was.

DH

Well I just happen to have a CSM 21 in a 20/28 gauge with 30" barrels. I also have just purchased a Fox CE made in 94 in a 20 gauge. Both are fantastic guns and I am happy with both. The 21 is my dove and clays gun and the Fox will be my upland gun.
I know a guy who just ordered a CSM 21 in 28/410 with 31" barrels and yes it will have double triggers!
Lou at CSM can do just about anything you want. One thing though, they seem to deal better on a 21 but will not budge on a Fox, beleive me I tried. Lou says it takes more hand work in the Fox.