doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Greener shotgun question, also Boucher 16 gauge

First post here, I was directed to your website by a feller over on the SavageShooters website.

I just came into possession of an Albert Greener 10 gauge double, serial # 1280. I've heard there are a lot of counterfits of these, and just wondering if anyone knows what I could look for that might tell me if it's the real thing or a counterfit. I don't have any money tied up in it, (gift) so I'm not worried about investment value or anything, just curious. It's a fine twist, hammered double with the unlocking lever on the left side.

I've also got a 16 gauge hammerless double that my uncle brought home from France after WW2. It was made in St.Etienne, which I know had a large gun industry in the past. Under the forearm, stamped on each barrel is the word "Boucher". I found out on the SASS Wire that the Boucher family had a winery in the St. Etienne area way back when. I also learned that it's pronounced "booSHAY". They don't say it that way here in SE OK. Just wonderin' if Boucher is a brand name or whoever made the gun just stamped that on the barrels for the family.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Pulp:

Right off, I know of an Albert Greener, although, there could have been one. W. Greener or W.W. Greener is probably who they were trying to imitate, and usually if the proofmarks are of Belgian origin, it is a fake. A pic of the barrel flats would be most beneficial. Someone with French knowledge should be along shortly.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for the reply. I see your from North Alabama. That's where the Greener came from. My brother, Sawyer, bought it from someone at Ambush at Cavern Cove. That's a big Cowboy Action Shoot, sponsored by the North Alabama Regulators. If you're anywhere close to Woodville, check 'em out. They shoot every first Sunday. I was at Huntsville (where my brother lives) the week before Christmas.

http://www.northalabamaregulators.com

Pulp:

Thanks for the info. I'm 40 minutes West of Huntsville, South of the Tenn. River. If you have a pic, someone here can assist you in posting it.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I can find it right now, but I believe there is mention in the Greener Book of an Albert Greener,a brother/relative of the English(Real) W or WW Greener.
I think he came to the US.But I remember seeing a pic in it of an Albert Greener Hammergun in there somewhere.If I remember right there was a couple of lines on him, but didn't seem to have made many guns...not much info on quality or quantity...but the Hammergun looked alright!
Franc

Franc Otte:

You are correct as Albert Greener being mentioned in his 9th Edition on page 415. But I don't think he would refer to his brother's gun as a forgery. He states: "and all "Horace Greener," "Albert Greener," J.H., A.H., and other H. Greener guns are practically forgeries."

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,this was in Graham Greeners Greener Story book, which I found.
It mentions ww saying the Forgery thing,but Graham rightly says , if indeed made by ww's brother Albert , then it is a genuine A Greener,
I think WW meant that in his opinion his siblings guns were not up to the Greener (his) level of quality & were not worthy of bearing the family Greener name.Also said all known Albert G's were Hammerer guns built before 1874.
Is yours a Hammer Pulp?
Any proof marks on the bbl/action flats.
If you find ELG in an oval ar sideways horse-shoe on the bbl flats..it a Belgion "Forgery" for sure
cheers
Franc

I believe Shooting Sportsman magazine had a short article on an Albert Greener gun some years back by British gun historian Douglas Tate. The gun, if I recall, was of very high quality, but by the shape of its fences and engraving it was obviously of Continental origin. A search of SSM's online index might turn up something.

Boucher (which means butcher in English) is a pretty common name in France. There was a Boucher gunmaker, so I think the name on your gun is probably legit--although under the forend on the barrels would make it a possibility that Boucher was only the barrelmaker. (Quite a few French guns have no maker's name at all. Some have the name of the shop that sold the gun. And some have a barrelmaker's name or initials, where you found yours.)

Because Boucher is such a common name, not likely that the gunmaker and the wine-maker would be the same family. And you do have the French pronunciation correct.

In both cases, if you can post pictures of the guns, we might be able to give you more information. The barrel flats (underside of the barrels, under the chambers) are important because of the proofmarks.

I have owned a set of duelling pistols by Boucher of Paris in their original case. Sadly I sold them some years ago.

Best regards, George