doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Off-topic: How Colorado has changed.

You're right Ted. I was talking to a co-worker and talk got around to climate change. So, I started asking him questions, you could see the gears in his head jamming and stripping, finally, he said "can we not talk about this anymore? this is very important to me and I find this very upsetting".

I suppose when all you have is a golden calf, any questioning is an existential threat.

I was a non-practicing Catholic for a long time. After the children were born I returned to church. While looking something up, I discovered a spirituality and religion forum, populated by a lot of aggressive athiests. I never posted or engaged with them, I just took their viewpoints and questions and began searching for answers. That was the best thing that could have happened for my faith. I don't like what the world has become but I'm at a certain peace with it, because I know God exists and we are working towards a resolution. I still have questions, but they're about guardrails and signs, not the direction of the road.

When someone demands you follow their science, and tries to quash questions or dissent, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Best to you also, Tim

Jimmy, look at your own graph, which goes back 600,000 years. I can clearly see several times where temperatures were falling, but atmospheric CO2 levels were still elevated.

If CO2 drives global temperatures, then the temperatures should have still remained high, or been rising during those times.

We also see several periods in the past where global temperatures were higher than they are now. Yet you and the Nutty Professor keep saying that 2023 was the hottest year in history. We had a day last week when our temperature got up to almost 63 degrees. I wondered if that was a record, so I looked at the Historical Data on the National Weather Service website. The record for that date was 70 degrees... in 1937.

Then look at the extreme right side of your precious Al Gore graph, to more recent times up to the present. Al's graph clearly shows present day CO2 levels higher than at any time in the last 600,000 years, yet we see several periods where the temperatures were significantly higher than the present. How can this be?

It looks like you went out of your way to post a graph that proves you and Al Gore are wrong about the direct correlation between elevated CO2 levels and high temperatures. Why did you wish to prove that you are wrong?

They're lying to you Jimmy. And they have you even lying to yourself. You know that, right?

Of course, it helps to remember that climatologists were using data from about 7000 weather stations around the globe in the 1960's, and they are using data from only about 3000 today. Many of the stations they eliminated were in colder regions like Siberia and Mongolia. Gee, I wonder why average global temperatures are rising??? And it's a hoot to see NOAA posting CO2 levels from their station on top of Mauna Loa.



Jimmy, you do know that Mauna Loa is an active volcano in Hawaii? It frequently vents large quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere. There are presently six active volcanoes in Hawaii. They all vent large amounts of CO2 into the air. NOAA using CO2 data from on top of Mauna Loa is like monitoring water quality in the Great Lakes by taking samples from the intake of a sewage treatment plant. Time to wake up Jimmy.

Why does anyone need to know that you play fast and loose with the victim card? Is it a mindset that affects what you believe and what you choose to show are the reasons.

Dogon: you're right, I did post that video twice. This is the video I should have posted...

"The use of fossil fuels in vehicles releases greenhouse gasses THAT CONTRIBUTE TO CLIMATE CHANGE. The park (Petrified Forest National Park- California) is working to reduce the use of fossil fuels in our fleet of vehicles and heavy duty equipment through the addition of hybrids and EVs." Unquote........... Fast and loose? Ha-ha! That sounds pretty slow and straight to me. Nuff said.

It's a neat video Lloyd. I have a good friend that ranches up in the mountains near Yellowstone, and he has many similar accounts. From bold park, thirty miles away, wolves, sitting at the edge of fields like dogs while he ran tractors, to luckily MT allowing pest control, to the elk being heavily killed off and chased out of their area, to ending up being able to get over the counter tags to hunt them.

They are around, but I haven't seen any for maybe the last four or five, years when I visit. Put some hunting pressure on them, and they act like part of the wild, part of the food chain, otherwise they had a stretch where they were aggressive, indiscriminate killers of lamb, calves and young game, without fully consuming them for the food. And, they were much harder on nesting upland birds.

My friends live a bit over thirty miles from paved road, and almost forty miles from a grocery store. We've visited a time or two in mid winter, very doable, but not exactly easy. A little rant disclaimer swtching on, a petrified brain just can't comprehend what it's like to assume there's a charging station, but there are none to be found, and no reception to call tiple a.

Craigd: I have hunted elk and deer in that area for well-over 30-years now. I suspect that my normally high-success rate will now begin to fall-off rather precipitously (if you can believe the reports from Montana and Wyoming on the subject). I'm of two minds about that, the first being that I've probably shot my share after all this time and that I should feel fortunate to have been so-blessed. My second thought is however, for the local economy up there (in lovely Craig, Colorado) and the now-elderly couple who own and run the neat little local motel that we've used, pretty-much every year, for all that time. My hunting partners & I (and now our children) have become something like old friends to those folks, to the point where we exchange Christmas cards every year. The local economy clearly depends on the regular traffic and business that big game hunting provides to that little corner of the world every Fall (the big orange signs they put up everywhere welcoming the hunters to town seems to confirm that). We eat in all the restaurants, shop in all the stores and buy lots of fuel for the multiple weeks that we might be up there chasing mule deer, elk and antelope. I'm happy that the 1st Gentleman here in Colorado has finally found his "calling" and is determined to alter the landscape by importing wolves from various other states to "re-balance" the food chains here in his husband's (the Governor's) state. We've also become quite familiar with some of the local rancher's we've hunted on over the years, and their operations are now increasingly complicated by this development. They may control baronial amounts of land, but their existence seems to be almost hand-to-mouth in many cases. The loss of some calves or sheep or even a treasured dog will not enhance their existence in any fashion, and will likely move them closer to the "brink". One wonders if that is indeed the goal here.

Great video Lloyd!!

One thing that didn't get covered in detail was how the reintroduction issue got on the ballot in the first place. This wasn't done through the legislative process or pushed by CPW. This was done through the referendum process where an activist group jumped through the hoops of gathering enough signatures to get it on the ballot. Similar groups are now trying to get other issues on the ballot like eliminating mountain lion hunting in the same manner. The same type of thing is playing out in many states across the country. These activists have learned that its easier & more cost effective to get their agenda passed into law this way than to go through all of the studies & legal drama associated with the normal procedures.

We've now learned after the fact that the wolfs introduced here from Oregon were problem wolfs already which where preying on livestock in their home range. CPW was mandated by the wording in the ballot to complete the first introductions by a certain date & because state after state refused to let Colorado have any wolfs, CPW was desperate to find some to fill their obligations, so when these problem children became available CPW jumped right on them.

The video was correct in that this passed by the slimmest of margins by only a few hundred votes and the blue island voters of the front range are the ones who screwed over all of these ranchers, hunters & wildlife management professionals. Some day in the future many of these same people will be asking (Where has all the Elk-Deer & other wildlife gone)

Wildlife management by referendum is a terrible idea and it should be made illegal to get issues like this on the ballot in the first place! This is just another item that has guys like myself & Lloyd bemoaning the fact of what our beloved state has become.

Thanks Dogon. While it's been the "imperfect storm" here for almost too-long now (& to answer Ted's earlier question about relocating) just picking up and moving isn't exactly easy either. Every other place I/we might consider will likely have it's challenges as well going forward. While my wife & I aren't natives here, we've lived here for almost 40-years now and we have the roots to prove it (children, friends, family, church, professional associations, etc.). The best solution to all that (that I can think of right now) is to just maintain a home here and travel to play elsewhere. If we happen to find a better option someplace else, then hooray (!), but until that time we'll likely just solder on here, vote our conscious and do what we can otherwise. Remember, living well is the best revenge.

One thing the Left (I'm using that term in the broadest possible sense) is very good at is activism. Something the Right could learn from. Literally everything we typically decry here has it's origins not in a broad popular groundswell but is the result of decades of concerted effort by a very small number of activists. Suggesting MORE government legislation is probably not the answer. Long term the answer is clear......learn from the Left, get organized, get active and make the case for the things we believe in. Not because it's an election year. But because it's part of your lifestyle. These are generational battles that require decades of comiited activism. Until we start to do that, the Left will keep winning the battles.