doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Super Fox Bore Dimensions vs Today

Michael McIntosh, in his book on AH Fox, describes the Super Fox as having .740 bores in 12GA, with a .048 inch constriction at the muzzle. The forcing cone was 3/4" long with an oblique taper. The choke cone was 4-1/2 inches long, with a straight, untapered section of bore the last inch at the muzzles. They were mostly chambered 2-3/4 inch, but could be chambered 3 inch. The 20 gauge Super fox's choke cone was 3-1/2 inches and standard constriction was .033". McIitosh didn't mention the 20 gauge bore, so maybe it was .615. These guns were made for the then-new Olin Super-X cartridge, in 12 gauge a 1-3/8 ounce charge of copper plated #4 shot. If one were to attempt to select or build a gun to put a lot of shot into a small group, using plastic wads and nickel plated shot for turkey, what would the gun's bore look like? Some Super Foxes were capable of putting 90% of the shot into a 30" circle at 40 yards. What configuration of bore/choke is out there now, and what are you folks' thoughts about how you would configure such a gun today? What would chambers, forcing cones and chokes look like today? Whose screw chokes work best? Which ammunition would you use? Which guns would best suit this goal?

Winchester Longbeard XR

In factory loaded lead ammunition this is what I would use. I shoot TSS in a modern 20 gauge and haven't tried it but from everything I read this is the cat's meow in lead.

Number 5 shot is a bit thin in the pattern for head shots on a turkey, even with an 85% pattern. This would be a good load for a flying turkey. Super Foxes have a variety of bores and chokes, but most are very effective with lead shot. The best long range patterns I have shot were with a .729 Sterlingworth and .044 chokes. I have never patterned my Super Foxes.

Agree, they make it in #6 too, and in 3 and I think 3.5 inch. What makes it special is that the shot are embedded in a resin which fractures to a powder at ignition, essentially an improved buffer. If I shot lead in a modern or stout older gun it’s what I would use for turkeys.

No. The early Super-X loads were only with "special chilled shot." The Super-X loads in 12- and 20-gauge put up in Western's 2 3/4-inch FIELD shell were introduced in 1922. In late 1922 they added the 16-gauge Super-X load put up in the 2 9/16-inch FIELD shell. By 1924 they added the .410-bore Super-X load and the 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X load put up in Western's high brass RECORD shell.



The Lubaloy shot Super-X loads, put up in the high brass RECORD shell were introduced in the February 1, 1929 price list.

This may sound like heresy, but turkey hunting as practiced here is rough shooting, blind or not, and as such means the gun will likely get some bonks, so for new, look at a Huglu with shorter bbl.'s and Full Choke screw-ins if you want a new double, and use any premium load of 36 grams of #6 shot. The main thing about successful turkey hunting is to get the bird within range, much more so than what it is being shot with. Lead number 6's will get the job done when the bird is within range. They are not migratory, so lead remains legal, and you don't need any more magic than that.

Interesting that in those days they were able to turn out .410 loads that much cheaper than 12 bore cartridges.

Agree about .410 shell pricing, then vs now. There is probably a principle of economics which explains the "progress" which has been made, or could it be just good old-fashioned greed?

When I was a boy, chasing squirrels and rabbits with a J C Higgins .410 S x S, Remington or Winchester .410s cost $3.00/box. My dad owned a big country store and sold them. I paid him $ .12/ea for them and sold squirrels uncleaned for $ .25/ea. Only way I could profit was to not use over one round per squirrel. That's how I remember the pricing so well. When I was allowed to use a .22 RF I thought I was going to get filthy rich market hunting, because of the lowered "input costs".

I don't recall what 12 ga. shells cost then. Wish I did.

Regarding Winchester LongBeard. There have been a few cases where the resin that incapsulates the lead shot has essentially gotten too hard and thus you are sending basically a hot slug through the end of that barrel. I've heard cases where they have blown barrels up. If I was shooting a lead shell at turkeys I'd be looing at RST Pigeon loads, size 6 and only take head shots within 35 yards.