doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Watson Bros 360EX double

I will ultimately need a cast bullet to practice, and potentially hunt, as my stash of RWS 193gr bullets is limited and shared with a 9.3x72r double. This is a shame, as they are super easy to reload since they have a mid-bullet band that stands proud of the base. I've been able to expand the case mouths enough to accept the smaller base diameter and then press and tap the bullets home, finishing with a pass through the seater with the central plug removed to smooth things out. These worked consistently at 50 yards and shorter. I haven't tried them further out.

I also tried 2 loads with purchased swaged lead bullets.

The first were naked 0.361" 145gr LRN bullets from Buffalo Arms that I got for my Alex Henry single($24.59 for 50). They weren't great in the Henry beyond 50 yard (likely too small), so I tried them in the Watson. They performed well enough at 35yds so I tried further out. We don't have steel at 100yrds so I tried the 200yd plates and was pleased to hit them 50% of the time for 6 shots. I'm happy with that given I am finding elevation to be the big issue I'm having with the Watson's iron sights. Not blaming the gun - I just need to practice with that wide shallow V and tiny front bead. I have only 8 loaded rounds left using the 50 bullets I bought and I won't replace them as I had much better luck with paper patched 0.358" 170gr LRN bullets from Bear Creek Supply. I bought a box of 500 of those for $50. They are terrible unpatched in the Watson and AH, but great patched in the Watson. I'll try them next in the AH. I'm hopeful about using these patched in all 3 of my 360EX rifles (there's also a GE Lewis hammer gun from the 1870s) after I get the Watson ready for next month's hunt. Bear Creek also offers a 180gr option at .358 and say they have a .361" 200gr coming soon, which sounds even better.

The patched bullets still reflect my newbie status as a patcher, but I'm getting better. Overall I need smaller finished bullet diameters, so I'll need shorter patches, and I have to make them stop further from the nose of the bullet as none of these rifles have long leades and I had some trouble closing the action on some rounds unless I peeled off some patch material.

It was a pleasant surprise that even rounds where the patch was cut off above the case neck by their final die pass performed OK. For patching paper I used gas station credit card receipt paper from refueling on our summer road trip. I will also try 9lb onion skin from Buffalo Arms.

So I'm planning on hunting next month with the jacketed flat nose RWS bullets, but I'll be exploring ways to make the 170gr LRN Bear Creek Supply bullets work via patching for use going forward.

Pictures below -- first target shows the first pair of 170gr LRN patched 0.358" bullets at 35yds. The second shows the longer rifle range with a zoom to the 200yd plates.

Buffalo Arms shows a .366" dia., 193gr, SP Jacketed bullet for 9.3x72R, priced $46.19 for 50. They are marked as "out of stock" but seem to be reformed from another bullet, possibly 200 gr .358RN. Buffalo Arms is known to reform or resize bullets for specific calibers. Since this is the case, they will likely make another "run" when they get enough requests to make it worthwhile to them. It may be worth your while to give them a call and lodge a request. BTW, to see the bullet you have to scroll almost to the end of the list. Good luck.
Mike

I had been on their site earlier today, checking their prices for 360EX and 9.3x72r brass to see if the Norma 9.3x72r brass I was seeing on GunBroker was a decent price. It was, so I am buying 50 cases of 9.3x72r from GB to a German boxlock double in that cartridge and provide more parent cases to cut down when my supply of Bertram 360 2.25” starts to wear out.

I’m intrigued how they form the two diameters of the bullet main shaft.

I also own and shoot a similar boxlock double on a Webley action. Mine though was retailed by Isaac Hollis of London and spent its previous life in India. The engraving on both side depicts a Leopard - I think it would be a very confident, or possibly foolhardy, hunter who went after Leopard with this cartridge !

The barrels are marked 360 EXPRESS BLACK POWDER 2 1/4 CASE on the top, and 360 EX 55-190 below [presumably the regulation charge and bullet weight]

Being an oppressed UK shooter I have limited access to the range of powders and bullets available in the US, I also only use the rifle to punch holes in paper at 50yds, so my reloads err on the lower velocity side.

I use a Rapine mold 366195 bought many years ago - sadly no longer trading. I used to load with Trail Boss, 11gns giving 1300fps, but the EU banned its import a while back. I have also had good success with Unique 8.5gns giving 1200fps.

However I now use Lovex DO60 a czech powder, which if you read their web page they say is similar to Accurate 5744 [which I presume is available in the US] I find 13.5gns gives me 1100fps and regulates well about 3in high. This load does leave unburnt kernels up the barrel.

I find Bertram brass can be a touch thick at the neck for my right side chamber stopping the action closing. I size the bullets to 365 and use allox lube. For the right chamber I have a number of cases I keep separate, these I have put in a bench drill chuck and thinned down the neck using a strip of fine abrasive paper.

Nick

Nick, thank you for the great information. If you have the means of posting photos I would love to see your rifle. Do you know when it was sold by Hollis?

Chris

Chris, can't find any information on Hollis, but I guess it would be early 1900's. I will see what I can do about taking and uploading some pics.

Nick

Please forgive my ignorance and jumping in here but where does this cartridge sit in relation to the 9.3x57R/360? From the descriptions, they seem to be the same or nearly so. Thanks!

Hoot4570,
9.3x57R or 9.3x57R/360 are German designations for the English 360- 2 1/4". Just like the other old 9.3s, this cartridge shows variation in groove diameters and German guns may show "D" version or "E" version chambers, causing confusion IDing pre 1912 nominal caliber designations. BTW, there is no similarity in ballistics between the 9.3x57, popular in Sweden, and the 9.3x57R, under discussion here and only case length is the same, not head size
Mike.

Thank you Sir. I have both the 9.3x57 and 9.3x57R on hand here. You and others helped me sort out the R version a few years ago---a Sauer Tell V single.

Nick - Does your Hollis have a top lever like the Watson's?