doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Looking for info on a Drilling

The bullet dia. Measures .319 so that seems correct. The head stamp reads lRS. These are custom loads I understand. Have a look at the picture. Could it be they didn't size the brass. Would the IRS case be different dimension's from the JR case?

Ghostrider,
The 8x57IR case and 8x57IRS case are the same, except for the headstamp and neck diameter. When you fire one of the cartridges, if a .323" bullet slips easily into the case neck, you can load .323" bullets. If that is the case, it just means the neck diameter in the chamber is large enough to release a .323" bullet. If a .323" bullet won't go in, but a .321" bullet will, you can use that diameter. It really as bad as it seems. In the early days before WW1, the Germans discovered they could safely 8x57S ammo in M88 rifles that had chamber necks large enough, and conversion amounted to replacing the sights to match the new trajectory. The German military inspected the M88 rifles in their inventory and opened up the necks of those that needed it and changed the sights. This doesn't apply to the M88s held by their allies nor to commercial versions, so each rifle should be checked before using "S" ammo. Incidentally proof cartridges for 8x57J and 8x57S rifles were loaded to the same pressure, so it is not correct that M88 rifles were weak. After WW1, treaty restrictions prohibited making new 8x57S arms, but the Mauser company made their chamber necks large enough for "S" bullets in .318" groove diameter barrels. This doesn't apply to other companies, so you can't presume "S" ammo is safe without checking.
Mike

Thank you Mike for your help as always. First let me wish you a fast recovery. Im praying you continue to feel improvement a little bit each day.

I recasted the chamber and as well as re slugging the bore. Bore is the .318 in my opinion it varies a few thousands depending where I measure it. The casting actually measures little larger that the cases from the box of Ammo I purchased, this I would say is normal.
The thing that stands out to me is the shoulder is different not as sharp on the loaded ammo as the casting. Also it appears to me the bullet is not seated straight.
This may not be the reason it wont seat, as Im just not sure yet.
I have a picture of the casting an one round as well as the slug I took.
Thoughts on this is appreciated. Is there a chance its not a 8x57 JR?

Looks like the neck didn't expand enough

Ghostrider,
A chamber cast shows the dimensions and shape of the chamber, not the cartridge. The cartridge dimensions must be smaller than the chamber, or it will not enter the chamber. The difference between dimensions is usually between .005" and .010". but in very old cartridges they may exceed .015". The shoulder on the cartridge was formed by a die and when (if) fired, it will become "fireformed" and conform more closely the chamber. The photo clearly shows there was a problem, with seating the bullet, which, in my opinion, is the likely cause of problems in chambering the cartridge. You can check/confirm this by smoking the bullet and neck/shoulder area with a lighter or candle or by coloring it with a "magic marker". Then when you attempt chamber it, areas of interference will be clearly shown by the smoke being rubbed off. This shows why I recommend loading your own ammo as you can control the equipment and procedures/workmanship and can correct any problems. If you can chamber the cartridges with moderate pressure of your thumb and fire it, the case will be fireformed to the chamber and reloaded with no problems. If it will not chamber at all, you should pull the bullet, resize the case after emptying the powder/removing the de-capping assy./lubing it, then properly reseating the bullet after replacing the powder.
Mike

Thank you Mike. I agree with all you are saying. I will use a marker and do what you are recommending. I believe the issue is the case started life as and ISR and was necked down to .318. I will know shortly if the bullets are installed at an angle. Visually it appears that way. I can get the case within a 1/10” of setting with a lot of pressure but wont seat flush. If this was a bolt gun would probably be able to chamber.
I will post my results later today.
Best Regards,
Phil

https://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/products/rifle-ammunition/rifle-ammunition-sp/detail/128/

https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/se...ft-point-196-2329-fps-rdbx-p-116469.html

Out of stock but can be found

I shoot that in my Krieghoff Drilling

Mike

First listing is for the JS .323
Second listing is outdated but the right ammo. Wish I could find some at $28.00 per box.
Third listing is mis advertised. It looks to not be JR but 8 mm Mauser rimless.
Luckily I did find 2 boxes of true Norma 8x57 JR ammo on Gunbroker today and bought it.
Im still trying to work with the seller on the first box I bought that lacked quality control when it cam to the reforming the IRS case for the JR and then seating the bullet where its not centered.

Thanks
I cleaned it up
You going to make brass from 444 Marlin?

Mike

Sometimes 8x57 IR/IRS cases are made from 444 Marlin, but 444 cases can cause inconvenience because it is simi-rimmed rather than rimmed and may sometimes get behind the extractor. A drilling extractor engages the "top" of the case and gravity works to move the case away from it. Tolerances in chambers sometimes allow the rim to fall behind the extractor, causing barrels to fail to close. This is not likely to be a safety issue, but if you have a deer on the ground trying to get up and the gun won't close, it may take a while to remember why. I use 444 cases for 410 carpenter bee loads in a single shot pistol, and the rims often get behind the extractor. When the quarry is a carpenter bee, it is not important, though.
Mike