doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Alliant powder prices

You should both be horsewhipped.

Actually, if anyone should be horse-whipped, it is the anti-gun senile idiot who calls inflation Bidenomics, and also recently handed Iran 6 billion dollars.. That is permitting them to provide a lot more money to Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorists. Trump wiped out ISIS in short order and had Iran on the brink of collapse. Like it or not, demands for ammunition for large military actions ends up creating shortages and higher prices for civilian ammo and reloading components. Supplying ammo to support Ukraine isn't helping either. At least Obama only sent them MRE's and blankets when Russia invaded Crimea.

I understand that it is very difficult for some folks to connect the dots...

That's kinda harsh don't you think

I just saw Russian made shotgun shells for sale locally. So obviously, all components are not going to either of the wars . . . Ukraine or Israel.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"

I'd be leery about putting anything "Russian" in a shotgun of mine Larry. The thought of the Russians making ammunition and sending it our way is a bit scary to me. I think I'll stick with the high American prices. LOL.................. Wonko mentioned that he would like to know why the high prices of ammo. When primers were really in short supply and I was calling around the country asking why primers were so hard to get, almost everyone told me the same thing-- that they were making primers for where the money was going. And that was to the handgun and rifle crowd who were reloading. Because more people were reloading rifle and handgun ammo than those who were reloading shotguns. I don't know if that was true or not, but that is the answer I got from just about everyone around the country. I mentioned in another thread, that supposedly, Winchester is increasing 209 production, now and guys were paying in the neighborhood of $70.00 per 1000. I read it on the trapshooting board. So, we'll have to see about that.

To Wonko's query, will simply say that there have been a series of occurrences and happenings that in the aggregate have all contributed to hiccups in the supply lines and elevated costs. To mention a few:

1) unfortunate fire incident happened in OZ several years back essentially killing that source of powder, and it was one that saw a lot of use by reloaders here. That horse has been beaten to death; it isn't new news. I'm being told as recently as last week that any new smokeless powder mfg. there becoming available to reloaders is still a couple of years out. Seeing any in our pipeline as an available component is likely even further out.

2) US Gov. and military contracts for small arms ammunitions have been prodigious, as in many 'X' millions of $$$
In businesses that survive, the money talks and those big contracts take precedent over more limited markets, like those where our interests are.

3) Every Tom, Dick & Harry entity has their own law enforcement agency these days and all shoot plenty of ammo, from what I'm being told as do many police Departments and SWAT groups and security companies.

4) Citizens have been buying firearms for self-defense at unprecedented rates since Obama was elected and most want to actually shoot them at least enough to develop a rudimentary proficiency. Ammo sales go in lock-step w/that. Demand for certain handgun cartridges saw unprecedented demand never experienced before that also saw scalpers seeing $$ opportunities and hoarders simply buying much more than they will ever have a need for, if we are honest about it.

5) It is safe in saying that virtually any smokeless powder suitable for shotshell application is also suitable for handgun ammunition.

6) There is no longer a viable functioning lead mine in the United States.

7) Go to any of the indoor shooting ranges that have proliferated here, and they are full. Some have 50 lanes. I don't know about other places, so can't speak to that.

There have been other factors from more recent fires, regulations that add to costs, wad shortages due to resin supply issues for some component makers, &c. Did those same issues affect the hull costs too? How could they not!? Oil [it's what plastic is made from too] and transportation costs have increased significantly during the same time period. Transportation costs for a container coming across any significant body of water have gone past stupid. Then getting it offloaded and moved by truck to a distributor is another expensive cluster. I don't think it is any ONE thing, rather a combination of many things that has created escalating costs and supply shortages. Just now seeing where some clubs can get sufficient quantities of loaded ammo to be able to support their member's needs for shooting 'the four guns' at skeet!! Many still cannot. Loaded .410 ammo has been scarce to unobtainable for going on 3+ years anyway, until recently. Know of one club that has an order in for a pallet of AA .410's and was told it will be sometime next spring before it can be filled, and the price is scary, but not as bad as the new retail.

Was a time not long ago where one could say that going to shoot birds in SA would cost $1K/day and be pretty accurate in that statement. NSCA Nationals are presently taking place in San Antonio and if you are shooting all the events, you can't do it for that... if you look at the whole pickle. The times, they have changed. Sadly, I don't look for Winchester to be offering rebates on their sleeves of 209 primers, as they did prior to the Wuhan virus being loosed upon us. For most reloaders, price drives the market. I switched to Nobel Sport 688 primers for shotshell target loads @ $40/K when they were introduced here and not had reason to look back. You can get a load pressure tested for about that or use published & pressure tested data found online.
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And, as to Russian target ammo. Started seeing it this past summer in use for sporty clays & FITASC targets. Don't recall the name but tube color is black w/silver print [may have had the Russian two headed eagle on it or one of the empty boxes did] and bright washed T-3 or 4 heads. Saw plenty of spent rounds but never discovered who was shooting them nor bothered to try and find out who sold them. Found an unfired one that someone had dropped and brought it home to dismantle. It appeared to be very well-made w/quite hard shot and unrecognizable but nicely finished and pliable plastic wad. That one had 28grams of 8's and a 'square cut' powder w/a dif. looking sealed primer. Have to remember that the Russians have won some Olympic competitions in the past. SWAG method, I'd say what I picked up was their present better or best target ammo. Can't say more than that.

The Turkish made Hepper shot is said to be some of the hardest available. I'd like to try some of it on the grease plate, but no one down here handles it. USHA and FITASC both require factory ammunition for any of their competitions, so it's moot in that sense. Hard to beat Clever Mirage, Bornaghi Gold, RC or Winchester Light Handicap rounds for getting that job done.

Apologies for the long rattle, but I've been idle, waiting for an incoming call that will help to keep me shooting.

And two weeks ago Vista sold its ammo division to the Czech parent of Fiocchi. Is Winchester the only US domestic ammo producer for the US consumer market? The next few years will be interesting

All of the above is correct and here is some more and it's not just shotgun ammo that is expensive:
-Regional unrest near Bosnia has caused the Serbian government, which has at least part ownership in Priv Partizan, to make sure their ammo supply for their military is sufficent, so no Privi Partizan ammo for the forseeable fortunate
-Covid hit Brazil hard and there is unrest within the country, so no Magtech ammo for a while
-American ammo companies are not going to spend millions of dollars on new ammo factories when the ammo shortage will end before the new factories are completed
-American shooters are still hoarding
-Salary increases in most industries in the US has also caused ammo costs to go up. If they are paying $15-$16 an hour (Connecticut) for part time help at fast food and food stores, how much are the employees at the ammo companies making?
-Issues overseas is causing shortages, not all powder is made here in the US. Trailboss, popular with the cowboy shooters, is made in Australia and won't resume production until 2024. Another powder (Clays IIRC) is made in Canada and that's been out of production for at least a year.
-No more cheap Russian steel case ammo
-Prices are not going to go back to what they were pre-Covid. If anything the low end shotgun ammo is probably pretty close to where it will be when the shortages end. I fully expect the Federal & Winchester economy ammo to end at around $70-$80 per flat.

Don't worry. I'm not buying. And the club where I shoot most of the time, the cost is still $3.50/round of skeet, trap, or 5 stand. We have no employees. Volunteer labor. And we survey club members, then send in orders for components. Helps hold prices down.

Something I've done for a long time to hold down costs: I shoot 3/4 oz loads at skeet. Maybe I wouldn't if I were shooting registered, but I don't think shooting 28ga loads in a 20 hurts my scores much. Claybuster's 3/4 oz wad makes it very easy to reload 3/4 oz 20ga target shells. When it's not hunting season, I usually shoot skeet twice a week. 3 rounds each time. I shoot 7/8 oz in the 16, and I shoot those fairly often. Components there are more problematic. Mainly hulls and wads. Also shoot 7/8 oz in the 12ga. Having found 8# of Green Dot lately saves reloading costs because I'm only dropping 12.4 grains in my 20ga loads. That helps me save my other powders (mostly Unique and 20/28) for 16s and 12s.