doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on who did this engraving

KYJon, I am not on the Arnold Griebel side here, but I do have an old brochure with prices. Three game scenes with scroll, $90.00. Medium relief with scroll, $120.00. I don't know how those terms compare with the gun in question, but then I don't think Arnold did the gun in question. Arnold's work is usually signed, I think. My gold inlaid Model 32 is signed. Model 32s were Griebel's trademark engraving jobs. David Trevallion sent me a picture of a 32 that makes mine look bad even though mine is quite nice. Mine was a gift from a shooting buddy a decade or more ago. I wonder why the engraver, so talented he is, did not finish the job.

In prughomme book there are several griebel engraved guns with no obvious signature also if work was done through a shop like pachmeyers it wouldn't be signed by engraver I would pull the stock and see if it's signed there.does it matter it's a great engraving job .mc

The recv'r itself being 'In the White' along with the grip cap and those two pieces being the only ones that are engraved suggests a couple things to me.

First I am assuming that those parts are in fact void of bluing. They appear that way in the pics.
Second, I cannot see any engraving on the bbl or the trigger guard.
Both the guard and the bbl/forearm assembly are blued

The Pigeon engraved on the bottom of the magazine tube was standard for Factory mark indicating a Pigeon Grade.
A simple line cut figure about anyone around the engravers shop could accomplish.

That the Frame and the grip cap are Engraved and left In the White suggests these parts were sent off separately to be engraved. Returned 'In the White' and then assembled and here they are today.
The grip cap likely made and fitted to the stock then removed and sent as a separate piece along with the frame to the engraver.

Who engraved it?,,Could be any one of a number of skilled engravers at that time Post WW2.
It certainly suggests German/Austrian/Belgian influence. There are many engravers in that period capable of the work. Some well known as mentioned, Some others the names may ring a bell. Others nearly unkn but to a few.

Many of their works have similar and familiar traits as they learned their trade through the same system and often from the same masters.

It is extremely difficult to place a name onto a piece of work when so many did the same style and at the same time.
..and at what point in someones career was the piece cut. Were they at mid point in what would be a Masters career? or on the downside of what was the same.
Quality can change as we travel through out career and it isn't always for the better. Age , injury, illnesses can all effect skills.

The most common or famous names come to mind right away. But in this instance I'm not so sure they're the correct guess.
The game scenes are well done but there are some details in the structure of the birds & dogs that leave something to be desired that I can't quite place this
work into the Griebel or Fugger camp.
Plus I think either of those would have at his point in their engraving careers signed their work and not made it a hide 'n seek game to find it.
Neither was shy about promoting their work and themselves.

The scroll is often called Black Leaf scroll or Old German Leaf scroll in Germany, Sometimes Belgian Arabesque scroll. Some say that's an incorrect term, so maybe it's just
Belgian Scroll then to keep everyone happy.
It has as many different names as it does variations of styles. Always a popular choice for scroll work.

The birds and dogs look like the photos of griebil work that I have .albin oblichnig,,did very similar work ,but the way some other things are engraved looks like griebel work .but I could be wrong

I have been out turkey hunting for the past 10 days and just returned.
I will try to post more pictures. In response to some of the questions and comments I am providing some additional information.
The model 12 is coin finished and is not in the white.The trigger guard is fully engraved.
I owned until recently a relief engraved model 21 done for the president of Marshall Fields which was credited to have been done by Griebel. It also was not signed, deep engraved, with coin finish.
It is my understanding the Arnold Griebel rarely signed his work.
If anyone has pictures they could share of Griebel’s signature I would be most grateful.
I also felt this gun was Griebels work when comparing it to some other pictures but I am far from any sort of expert.
That said I hope to have it out shortly to shoot some clays and pigeons.

I have several Kornbrath engraved guns and the dog positioning with the head up on this gun is similar to some of these guns. Likewise, the black leaf is similar, but of course Kornbrath stopped engraving a couple of decades before this gun was done. Very pretty work in my estimation.

Griebel signed a lot of his work. He was a Freelancer so self promotion was to his advantage. This especially early on when he first immigrated to the USA.
That promotion wasn't needed after a time as his work became known and sought out for what it was.
The sign of a true artist and craftsman.

His signature was usually a severely plain block letter style. No extra fancy lettering, no Script styles with intertwining loops.
Usually easy to find if it is there but can be very small.

Here are a couple pics
One on a Colt pistol w/a pic of the pistol engraving. The other on a Winchester 1894.

Thank you for the pictures. Its so odd that a guy that did such fine work and who's major work was doing engraving for Mint dies signed his work so crudely.
I remember that when doing research, that AG stated that it was not traditional to sign his work but would do it on request.

I guess time is money so a quick name and that's it

Passed up opportunity to buy a pump with beautiful engravings once. I think about it often. Don't even remember what the gun was, but I think it was a model 12, but doesn't matter, the engraving is what got me. Made a mistake not buying it,