doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Spanish gun proof?

Drew,
I remember seeing a few new Spanish doubles in the rack along with other sporting implements in the early to mid 1970s in the area I grew up in, north of the twin cities of Minneapolis/St Paul, MN. My dad would shop and I would drool on the guns. Until he started hunting geese, perhaps mid to late 1970s, he never needed anything but a Standard A5, but, would allow me plenty of time to pester the help behind the counter. I never saw hang tags on any guns, except the new Remingtons, when I was a kid. I’ll bet every single gun had them, but, they often didn’t make it out the door with the new owner. He got sold a slip and perhaps a box of ammunition, and that was that. Box, papers went in the trash. I saw that a few times, and when I bought my 1100 12 gauge from Woolworth’s sporting goods counter, (remember them?) I had to ask for the box and paperwork and wait around for the guy behind the counter to find them. My dad and the dude seemed mildly annoyed that 19 year old me even wanted them. But, I did.
Anecdotal, for sure, but, not reading the directions was a thing, once upon a time.

Best,
Ted

If the barrels are in good condición there would be no problem to shot 70 mm cartridges.

I think we have a disconnect here.

A stamp of 850 or 900 on a Spanish shotgun is the identifier of the proof standard applied to and passed by the shotgun in question. That proof stamp is not germane to what ammunition should be used/not used in the shotgun.

The commercial ammunition loads (shot charge weight and muzzle velocity) that can be used depend more on what kind of shotgun is under discussion than some speculative idea of chamber pressure. All artisanal Spanish shotgun fall somewhere on a continuum that ranges from light game gun, through medium game gun, to heavy competition (live pigeon) gun.

Shotguns at the far end of the continuum at the heavy competition gun end can digest a steady diet of heavy (shot charge weight and muzzle velocity) commercial loads.

Shotguns at the far end of the continuum at the light game gun end need a diet of the light (shot charge weight and muzzle velocity) commercial loads to avoid blown out chokes, cracked stocks, and general excessive wear and a shortened useful life.

Medium game guns fall between these two extreme ends of the continuum.

A commonly heard comment goes like this; “A light game gun is carried much and shot little. A medium game gun is carried little and shot much. A heavy competition gun is not carried and shot as constantly as matches are available.”

Please note all the above discusses only commercial ammunition. Hand loading for a Spanish artisanal shotgun is just another world and is very heavily constrained by what kind (light, medium, heavy) gun will be used to fire the handloads.

The above applies to guns regardless of whether they were made in1927 or 1995, and regardless of the Spanish gun maker.

neva seen ah spanish gon wid ah barrel issue...

spanish steel is some of the oldest and strongest alloy ever made...

Found a Sarasqueta hang tag, with reference to the Proof Certificate but no load recommendation



Ted: bet those gunshop fellas got turned around a time or 10 in the Boundary Waters without a map

Some of us need ‘em, some guys didn’t. I had a chart last time I was there, and a handheld GPS. But, the guide on the last church retreat I took there as a kid, perhaps 45 years ago, didn’t. Canoeing around for a week, he knew where he was. He had canoed all over the world. He guided at Y camp Menogyn for thirty summers.
He had a wood framed, canvas covered canoe that was an antique, then. Wonder what happened to him?

Anyway, back to proof. A while back, I noticed that pre 1923 French single proof at 65mm is the exact same pressure level as the 1000 Spanish proof applied to my 3” chamber Uggy, 14,233. I haven’t concerned myself with what I feed the Uggy, and would feed it steel or some other nontoxic if the powers that be told me to. Maybe not the 1500 FPS stuff they sell, but, it is a rainy day gun, bought without a lot of concern for how it holds up. It’ll last as long as me.
Same with the Frenchy. I have been feeding it 2 1/2” ammunition, don’t have a ton of it left, but, I’d sneak a 2+3/4” AA light target load in, here or there without too much concern. Same deal, rainy day gun (I have wealth in rainy day guns).
Photos of barrel markings and non glamour shots of two users.






Best,
Ted

______________________________________________
Put a sock in it, ed. Took me a minute to find my pictures.

so, why do sum of you guys think its ok to go off topic and trash this thread with your memeories of canoeing the boundry waters?

if spanish guns and such, are of no interest to you, then have some respect for the originater of this thread and move on...

--- snip ---

Drew,

I’m baffled by the reference to a “load recommendation”. I don’t recall ever seeing a modern firearm, new or used, offered for sale with anything like a “load recommendation”. Can you help me understand what this is all about?

Best,

Kyrie

Kyrie,
This is an English language version of a single page of a set of pre war directions that would have come with a spanking new Darne gun, if the gun dealer didn’t throw it in the trash. It details powder and shot recommendations for 12, 16, and 20 gauge Darne guns. They are advising medium or light loads, and warning about using heavy loads, which, they claim don’t perform any better, dovetails quite nicely with my own experience, especially 20 gauge 3” loads from back in the day. A 32 gram 12 gauge load, at moderate velocity, is about perfect for birds.




Good advice, even 90 years later.

Best,
Ted

Ted,

Thanks Ted, I may understand better the reference to “load recommendation”. I now understand load recommendation refers to hand loading data provided with a firearm by the firearm maker.

Not the kind of thing I’ve seen with modern Spanish (or USA) made firearms, where the expected ammunition to be used is assumed to be off the shelf commercial ammunition that is C.I.P. (or SAAMI) compliant.

Appreciate your educating me 😊

Best,

Kyrie