doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shipping antique guns from USA to EU?

Thanks so far.
Some years ago I bought an antique (pre 1899) revolver on GB and the seller sent it to me to Slovenia with no problems. Of course the Slovenian Customs Service held the parcel but when I presented my import gun papers and paid the duty, I received the gun.
Unfortunately, my PC crashed recently and I can't see the old emails for the details (mode of shipping,etc-) and my memory faded, and that is why I am asking here ---

Cheers,
Jani

Jani, I got hold of State Department PM/DDTC. Wrong office but they referred me to the "response team"

ddtccustomerservice@state.gov

They sent this email. They have opened a case number even though I only wanted information. I will soon get another email or call and hopefully can then obtain enough information to walk you through the process. (I think they thought I wanted to send Stinger shoulder fired AA missiles to Iran or something.)



I intend to send a short message back to them so they can have the info ready to pass. This is the message I'll be sending. If it is wrong send me a PM. Thanks.

Sirs, A friend in Slovenia has a small collection of early-mid 19th century pistols he bought at auction which are currently stored by an FFL dealer in New Jersey.  He would like to send the collection to Europe.  He can handle the EU import regulations and paperwork.  However, he would like to know what regulations he needs to fulfill in the US to accomplish this export. He is a private individual and does not represent a company.

I do not have the details on his pistols yet but believe they are single-shot flintlocks and percussion guns.

Could you please provide a outline on how he should go about meeting US regulations for exporting this collection.

Many years ago I did a few exports on handguns

It does have to go through the dept of state

And back then I believe the form was the same as now Dps 5

Forget about ATF. They are not involved in exports

The items I exported were not antiques but more modern guns

I think one of the problems you will have is a carrier who will accept shipment


John Boyd
Quality Arms

I think you will spend a lot of time on this and get nowhere

Unless these really mean something close to him.

Probably he should think on having you sell them for him and send you the money


John Boyd

John, I'm just doing Jani a favor since I now have some time on my hands here in the DC area. Not interested in buying antique pistols. I'll find out the process and he can handle it. State Department got back and said to contact the ATF on import regulations. Talk about not having reading comprehension!

Here is the reply from State. If anyone an interpret this gobble-de-gook, please help:

How old are the pistols, if they fit in the category described below please contact the Department of Commerce, Bureau of Industry and Security to assist you further at ECDOEXS@bis.doc.gov or 202-482-4811

ITAR USML 121 - Category II - Guns and Armament Note 1 to paragraph (a):

This paragraph does not include: Non-automatic and non-semi-automatic rifles, carbines, and pistols between .50 (12.7 mm) and .72 caliber (18.288 mm) that are controlled on the CCL under ECCN 0A501; shotguns controlled on the CCL under ECCN 0A502; black powder guns and armaments manufactured between 1890 and 1919 controlled on the CCL under ECCN 0A602; or black powder guns and armaments manufactured earlier than 1890.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121

Easy enough to understand.

John Boyd

Well, I sent a note back asking for steps to take if these guns are not flamethrowers, fully automatic machine guns, artillery pieces, mortars, starlight scopes, light-sabers, ray-guns, or if they are not munitions which can be used in such guns. I.e. what forms need to be filled out and who needs to chop on them.

By the way the first time they replied they told me to contact ATF re "imports." They didn't even read the e-mail.

That's why I used the phone, even though I despise communcating by phones ordinarily.

I want to start off by stating that I HAVE NOT exported anything. I have been importing my own firearms however and it really isn't that difficult. The hardest part is getting good information and the agencies that are in charge often don't even know their own rules. On top of that there is a lot of bad information that is given by people trying to help. I may just do that now (but I don't think I am). I'm mostly writing this as I hate to see people not do things because they think it's too difficult. I hear that often in regards to importing and it really isn't.

The State Dept. covers ITAR and the firearms in question are not covered by ITAR.

ATF does not handle exports. They have always been great to deal with however when importing and once called/emailed me a half dozen times when approving a form 6 to get additional info and ask questions rather than denying it like many other agencies would have done. Nothing but good to say about them.

I believe most items people (on this forum) would want to export would be covered under ECCN 0A501 or 0A502. Both under the Department of Commerce, Bureau of Industry and Security. It appears to me that they would need and export permit and it looks like anybody can apply for one for free under the online SNAP-R account system.
The word antique is NOT standardized. Not in this country and certainly not internationally. For firearms export purposes it appears to be pre-1890 not pre-1899 like it is for import. If the pistols that Montenegrin wants to export are pre-1890 then they fall under EAR99 and do not appear to require an export permit.

Shipping is likely going to be your biggest hurdle and certainly the most costly. They will most likely have to go air freight and that isn't cheap.
I have no idea what the EU import process is but you mentioned you are familiar with it. If it's allowed the easiest way is probably to fly to the US for a vacation and fly back with them, declaring them (with the previously acquired paperwork) upon your arrival to your home country. This may not be allowed but it would likely be only a bit more money than the shipping and you get a trip out of it.

I don't have any more info on this than what I posted and it may not be 100% correct, but hopefully it gets you on the right path.