doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shipping antique guns from USA to EU?

Hello all,
I have a few antique Gasser revolvers (made before 1899) in storage with a friend in PA-USA and he would like to send them over to me to Europe. He asked me how to do it best so I ask here for your experience.
What service to use? US Mail? A commercial courir service, which one? How to declare the antique guns to avoid any complications, from the US side? Any other hints. I will have to get import papers here in Europe but this part I am familiar with. Thanks.
Cheers,
Jani

There may be different rules for long guns vs. handguns. However, non FFL holders in the US can't use the mail but must use a commercial common carrier to ship handguns to a US FFL holder. I'll leave it up to others who may be country specific. You would also have the EU Rules to contend with. Bear in mind that packages are often x-rayed. Here are two pistol shaped bootjacks I bought out of France. Note the packaging as it was when I received them. If I were you, I'd check with a firearms importer in Slovenia. I assume US made Colts and Glocks find their way to Slovenia above board. Gil

Jani, could I suggest you call or email ATF. They are very easy to deal with and you'll get your information straight from the horse's mouth. I called them from Afghanistan once when I was sending some Martini-Henry's back to the USA via APO.

https://www.atf.gov/contact

The ATF is the wrong place to go for this. I went down this road a long way with them because most of the really don't know. The State Department is the correct place for information. If you are unsure, email one of your state's senators. They can be sure helpful, and they (their people) know their stuff.

Rules for shipping parts and guns and barrels on particular, are pretty simple but easy to get wrong. BATF is domestic only.

Brent, you have a lot of experience but that was not my impression of ATF. Sometime around 2009 A general in Afghanistan without much to do ruled that all center-fire antique guns being sent to the USA via APO had to get pre ATF approval. This included Sniders and Martini-Henry. I found a very knowledgeable guy at ATF importation branch who explained all the rules to me. He forwarded the forms. I filled them out and got them back a month later. Mind, these were US import regulations. But if there are US laws pertaining to export as well, I would expect them to know. Gene

ATF has an import regulation branch but no export. I submitted an e-mail question to them on Jani's behalf:

to: imports@atf.gov

Exporting antique (pre 1898) hand gun collection to Europe:

Sirs: I am asking this question for a European friend. He has several pre 1898 antique pistols, mostly percussion, stored with an FFL gun dealer in the USA. He would like to export these to the European Union. He can handle the EU importation paperwork from that side of the Atlantic. However, are there any US laws that need to be addressed before export? Thanks

Maybe so, but your experience is an American (and American organization), sending a gun back to America. Sending a gun to a foreign land (and NOT an American military instillation), is nothing like sending a gun or part your English friend, Harry, which is what I was trying to do. THAT is State Department all the way. The rules as I recall, are that you can send parts under $100 value, but NOT barrels of any value, nor complete guns. And that's just from the American end of the transaction. What is required on the other end - is yet another thing, but I never got to that because USA law said I could not send a barrel, period. You might notice that many dealers will no longer sell barrels or liners to any out of country address any longer. That started maybe 5-10 yrs ago, due to these restrictions.

I imagine that generals can autocratically declare a lot of rules, and the military has to abide by them, but the OP did not invoke the military in his question. Also, this is outbound, not inbound.

Call a senator's office or peruse the State Department website and find the correct office. Once I did that, it was all crystal clear in just a minute or two.

Thanks Brent. I know my experience was with importation and this was made clear in my email to ATF. We'll see what they say. We are talking antiques. I'll try to get something in print for Jani.

From the ATF website:

Firearms

Please select what you would like to do:
Report Federal Firearms Licensee Theft or Loss of Firearms
Submit a Firearms Regulatory Question(link sends e-mail)
Submit a Firearms and Explosives Import Question or Concern(link sends e-mail)
Submit a Firearms and Explosives Licensing Question or Concern(link sends e-mail)
Submit a National Firearms Act Question(link sends e-mail)

I just flipped through the State Dept. website but didn't find an obvious office to call. My contact with my Senator's office gave me an office and number at the time so I simply dialed it. Hunting for the right cubical at State is rather like searching for that proverbial needle in a landfill. Federal politicians have fleets of staff that answer these types of arcane questions. Make them earn your money

BTW, i called 5-6 BATF agents in three different regional offices, and none of them were sure, and they could not figure out why they could not find a definitive answer until finally a guy in the Carolinas fessed up and said - "it ain't our call". But he wasn't sure whose it was - that's when I got the idea of putting a senator's bloodhound on it. Took about 12 hrs.

If US citizens cannot export commercial firearms abroad, that certainly would kill off a market for US gunmakers and for US auction houses; thus, one is inclined to believe there are ways to do this.

This site from the US Customs and Border Patrol is interesting:
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-388?language=en_US

A DSP-5 export license is required for the permanent export of firearms and ammunition unless an exemption applies. For a one-time exception request, send a letter to the address listed below:

Postal Mailing Address:

PM/DDTC, SA-1, 12th Floor
Directorate of Defense Trade Controls
Bureau of Political-Military Affairs
U.S. Department of State
Washington, DC 20522-0112

or

Express Mailing Address and Courier Delivery Service:

U.S. Department of State
PM/DDTC, SA‑1, 12th Floor
2401 E Street, NW
Washington, DC 20037

For more information about export license exceptions, restrictions on the export of a shotgun, shotgun parts and shotgun ammunition from the United States, please contact the BIS or call them at 202-482-4811.

For all general inquiries, contact the DDTC Response Team at 202-663-1282, FAX 202-663-8199, or email to PM-DDTC-RESPONSE-TEAM-DL@state.gov.

For further information and electronic application support, contact the D-Trade Help Desk at 202-663-2838 or email to dtradehelpdesk@state.gov.

Now waiting to see what ATF recommends. On behalf of Jani, I'll call BIS tomorrow for information...202 is a local area call.

Looks like you're going down the right path now. They will make sure you don't start WW III.