doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com best gun question?

I have a friend who recentley took up shooting,He has never been exposed to the sporting life(hunting and fishing).
He is an exceptional shot shooting for only 15 months he did very well at the nationals NSCA in Texas,
I gave him a side by side which he shoots and now wants to build a collection/investment grade guns.
Budget of about 100K,He has SO4,SO6 and a few other similar guns.He wants good side x sides
I would like to give him good advise and not get fleeced in the process,he has allready been burned on one gun,and wants to avoid this situation in the furure.
Thnaks
Hampton

hampton - there are two basic approaches to buying guns (or most anything else). One, spend the time to learn enough to know a fair price when you see it. Second, develop a relationship with someone who has spent the time.

For the first approach, leave the wallet home (better yet, make a two year investment) for two years. Read ten books on the gun trade. Visit ten large, specialistit high grade gun dealers. Attend the Las Vegas January show and the Vintage Cup twice. Take a fitting lesson in the USA. Strongly suggested - take a "gun" trip to UK where you visit a big auction, most gunmaker's shops, and take a lesson at one of the shooting grounds.

Or, pick a dealer (hopefully within commuting range), explain what you want for your first gun, become very patient. Be willing to say "No" if your gut says , "No."

Tips: You are much more likely to make a bad deal on an impulsive buy that you are to find a bargain. Decide what you want next, write it down in detail, and review detail before buying. Most likely, there will be no final and "only one more" gun; your tastes and/or needs will change with time and exposure to different guns. Dealers stay in business only because they make money. To make money, the dealer must buy for less than he sells for. If you object to paying for a dealer's expertise, you will have to learn to deal privately on your own.

To start with, the budget owner needs to decide on any country of production restrictions, brand name interest, currnt condition minimums or new only, quality grades to be considered ("A" or "B" grades considered, house best only, extra finish, etc.), new bespoke or "experienced," purpose of the gun (investment, safe queen, clays, upland, live bird, water fowl, historical interest, provenance, etc.), and collection or shooting battery.

Do the above, write it down, review all writing before spending money, and wait a week before any individual purchase. That will be a good start. Hook up with the Carolinas Vintagers in Charlotte for lots of discussion on SxS guns of all description.

Excellent advice from Rocketman.

I would just add that it is fun and cheap to buy wrecks or apparent wrecks for very little money and take them to bits - this way you learn a lot about how the guns work - and signs of quality and condition imprint themselves on your brain.

Sometimes those wrecks can be surprisingly resurrected!

No dealer or seller of fine guns will take the place of a mentor and advisor. There are also good and bad in mentors and advisors. In some ways I envy the problem, but in other ways I am content being poor but confident in my previous selections. The longer we do this, the happier we are with our last purchase. Murphy

The big bang for the bucks are the American classics, high grade - high original condition.
Right on the heels are the London sidelock ejectors, high original condition here too!
Forget the Euros, they are a bad investment and bad blood.

That $100K scares me. Murphy and Rocketman have provided the best advice I can think of. I've provided the same advice to those smitten with flying and want to buy a plane. Many go out and buy what they don't need---because they have the money in their pockets. Hampton, tell your friend to lock up solidly his money for a couple years, read, read, read, participate in this forum, hang out with those who know their stuff and not let others do his thinking for him.

Thorny,
You are generalizing. It sounds as if our hero is actually interested in shooting the gun first, rather than simple speculation. Hence, to deny a whole segment of gunmaking is a bit foolish, in this case. Rest assured, there are German, Italian, Belgian, French and Spanish makers who can build the equal of anything built today in England. The reason it won't sell for as much is it won't cost as much to begin with.

As to the Americana pieces, actually shooting and hunting them isn't all it is cracked up to be. 100 year old stuff has it's limitations, and ignoring that will cost as much or more than the "right" shooter would have in the first place.

Lebeau Courally, Hartmann & Weiss, G. Granger, Fabbri, there are others, and it's all good.
Best,
Ted

Some here will think that I am kidding but 100K , while it is a lot of money, will not buy you much of a investment grade collection. Very few or maybe three max. if you start with the big three from G.B.. High grade Parkers would quickly take the whole 100K fast if they are in real high grade and high condition.

I think that guns are one of the poorer investment for an investment sake. Stocks, bonds, real estate are far better in holding or gaining value over time.

Mint or high grade guns are like virgins. They cost a lot because they are rare, but if you screw around with them or just use them, they quickly loose their value. Hard to buy guns and not want to use them unless they are not what you want to shoot in the first place.

So I would suggest that he stick to a theme collection. Maybe all small bore Parkers, Fox, Smiths, LeFevers, Lidners or the like. Focous on a very limited collection of mid priced guns and it will look impresive and be a real challenge to collect. Buy a few that he will shoot and others that will remain virgins.

I also think that mid level gun prices will have more of a chance to go up than top level grade guns prices. Also the chance of being burned on a high dollor gun is greater than being burned on several mid level price guns for the same amount of money.

Why is he wanting the collection?

Is his main goal to have something to talk about and show off to others?

Is his goal to make an investment (I'm with KY Jon on this one, put your money somewhere else.)

Is his main goal to have something to do - looking for and learning about guns can be fun?

His reasons for wanting a collection will in part determine how he should go about aquiring it.

If he just wants a collection the simplest may be to just buy someone else's collection.

I also agree with KY Jon that if he is talking truly best guns his $100k will only go so far. Maybe a nice pair if he buys right.