doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Determining value? (long)

This may be too vague a question, but how do you guys arrive at a fair price for a nice sxs when you are shopping? As a relative newcomer, I read this BB religously as well as a couple other general ones. I watch Gun Broker and Guns America closely and review the auction report so generously provided on this site. The problem I am having is there is a 30-50% between what people say guns are worth and what I see guns listed at. Last night I sent an e-mail to a seller on GB regarding a 1928 12 ga Fox Sterlingworth is basically decent shape. His starting price was $550 and I asked how much higher the reserve was (since this is about what it looks like this gun should sell for). He was genuienly offended said reserve was $995 and asked me if I thought it was 1990 still. What part of the equation am I missing?
Thank you,
Dave

Don't worry, it seems a lot of the gunbroker.com guys think everything they own is 100% and is worth more than what every other gun for sale in its class is worth.

I was shopping for a dog training gun for an HRC event. (HRC require that a common pump gun be used during hunt tests since that would have the most exposer for for the general hunter.) There was a guy on gunbroker that wants $350 each for a used 870 Express. You can walk into Wal Mart or any other chain store and get them for $250 to $280 every day for a new one. Must be some kind of great premium with a used one I guess.

I watch the Model 21's on Gun Broker about every week. There are several that people have had listed for several months and some that have been for sale for more than a year. Some of those just have prices so out of line, no one is bidding or buying them. The sellers are trolling for that one sucker that decides to buy one right then and there.

I guess what I am saying is "don't feel bad, we are all in the same boat".

Dave,
I don't think you've missed much. Internet sales are usually on the high side (though not always). Your best education is too go to shows and shoots so you can handle guns. Pictures on the net don't really provide much information and can make things look better than they are, as well as hide defects that you'll easily see with gun in hand.
Keep asking questions each time you handle a gun you like. If there's a rule of thumb out there, it's probably that a dealer must recoup a minimum of 35% on inventory investment. Some dealers and private sellers on the internet however will go for 100% profit which puts their product way over fair market. Bottom line will always be what's it worth to you. Some guns bring a premium based on condition, some based on desire. Only experience will help you know the difference.
btw - if the Fox seller was offended, you should ask him why he just didn't list the gun at $995 to begin with if that's his bottom dollar and stop playing games. Too many sellers cry about "tire kickers" wasting their time when in fact it's them who waste your time with unreasonable expectations...or perhaps they're just trying to find the next "sucker" in line.
Remember one thing. If it's a piece of junk today, it will still be junk tomorrow. Only condition will provide an increase in value in the long run.

Dave I'm just a back yard expert. I've never bought a gun off Gunbroker or Guns of America. I do allot of looking. To me a gun could commamd a higher price based on condition. Condition being to me bores, beach face condition and tight on face, ribs tight no stock cracks. Use doesn't bother me too much. Sadly most of the sellers are living in a dream world when they talk about condition.

Welcome to the world of Buyer vs Seller. This is an ages old process, one populated with tradition, innovation, and brown apple sauce. Get over anything personal in transactions. Real buyers are motivated to pay the least possible, just as real sellers are motivated to get the most possible. Money changes hands when the price is agreed to by both.

In the case of guns, the #1 gun buyer's mistake is to rush into a deal based on fear of missing a bargain. It is much more likely that you will make a mistake than that you will miss a real, bonified bargain. If you don't know what something is worth, don't buy it until you are satisfied that you have done due dilligence in confirming what you will pay.

Per offended seller - very old technique to stampede you into a high price. Unless you are planning some long term relationship with seller, his "offended" should be of little concern. How do you know it was "genuinely?" He has no obligation to price at what you consider to be realistic or fair. You have no obligation to buy, even if he offers you a rediculously low price. When the buyer and the seller don't agree, each moves on. Simple as that.

PM me an email address and I'll send you an Excel file on pricing Brit and Continental guns. It won't help with American guns.

Hi Dave,
You've gotten a lot of good advice from all the above. I don't hesitate to e-mail the seller to ask what his reserve is and most always get a polite answer. Actually, a starting price of $550 with a reserve of $995 is not really that much of a spread, IMO. I'd consider a reserve of $3000, starting at $100, pretty ridiculous. The seller does not have to reveal his reserve to you but I always like to know. If it is way over what I want to spend, I won't get involved in the bidding. Watch the bidding on the gun you are interested in. The final bid will tell you and the seller what it is worth. If the reserve is not reached, he may be willing to deal with you, after the bidding is closed. If he gets his reserve price, you have learned that, at least.

Here's a perfect example of idiocy: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=74014079
This gun has been for sale for months, starting at a penny, with a reserve of $2999, actually printed in the description. It is obvious it's not "worth" $2999, or it would have sold by now.
Another common example of idiocy is to list a gun starting at $1695 with a "buy now" price of $1695. Why put in on an auction site???

Jim, everyone with an interest has "voted" on Glenview's Lefever. The bidding has gone as high as 2500; he's not budging and now there is no interest. But he's not paying any fees until he sells so of course he waits for someone with the yen and the Yen.

jack

Kept original today, will make the most homely Sterlingworth shooter worth more 20 years from now.
These guns have been reworked, rewooded, redone and up-graded.
An original, any original will makes these guns worth maybe a mint even.

OK, stupid question. What is that LeFever worth?