doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CNC machining

Ran across an interesting post where Bruce Owen article in utilizing CNC machines to reduce the hand work in gun building was mentioned. So....CNC work in today's gun builders, would suggest quality guns are being built fare superior than the ones built 50 years ago, Into days best gun builders Purdy, H&H, cogwell, W.Richards, Boss ..... which of the big English gun builder "do not" utilize CNC machining?
I thought all bespoke guns utilized CNC machining and hands on work...am I off base or just misinformed?

CNC is completely mis-understood by the gun buying public. Just because it was spit out of a Haas does mean it is any better than something built on an old hand operated machine. The quality comes from the hand finish work. If you look to see what the Bits machine on CNC you will find most items look very rough. Hours of filing and hand work still goes into each gun. Tghe steels have improved over years past but to be honest by the 1920's steel was as good as it will ever need to for a gun. Personally I find the between the wars guns to be about perfect but that is only my opinion. Someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm all wet.

SKB, you�re all wet. I didn�t want to disappoint you. Seriously you�re totally correct. I often hear how steels have gotten better since WW2. They have, no doubt, but by the turn of the 20 century they were already superb. The steel in Colts pistols and revolvers from before the First World War is as good as it gets.

All of the best gun companies use CNC these days. The level of finish one gets off the machine is totally dependent on what the operator is wanting and their abilities. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as loading some steel in the machine and pushing a button.

One can get actions barrelled or not from one provider that is an ex-Purdey machinist, incredible amount of detail is done in the shaping and very little is left to do. When he machines the barrels the fitter is left with less than .004" of smoking on-face. You pay for it, but the end result for a Beesley or Woodward auctioned gun would be a 1/3 the cost of a Best name. He uses a mix of wire edm, spark/sinker edm, and 5th axis VMC.


I've seen other providers that leave them more squared. There are also craftsman working in the trade doing best quality work with nothing more than manual machines, broaches, chisels, files, etc

I wouldn't necessarily say modern best guns are better than early guns because of CNC. The biggest benefit with CNC comes when you jump to 4th axis machining, less setups are required. Obviously any CNC gives one the ability of machining complex shapes with radius, repeatedly.

Through hardenable steels have come a long way. I'd keep an eye on steels like S7 becoming more popular in gun use.

One of the top names that does not tout CNC work is Boss. Cannot tell if that means they do not use it.

For a detailed look on best gun building in the UK via CNC look at the Boxall and Edminston site.

As for hand filing. There is a huge difference between filing a rough forging and finish filing a CNC part. To expect rough filing today considering the technological advances mentioned by Gunmaker above borders on sadism against the worker.

Yes Ian does machine things to a much more finished state than most in the UK trade. He is the exception not the rule. To machine things to the state that Aaron has shown in his pictures takes hours and hours of CAD time and you need a certain level of volume to pay for it. Most of the trade works from much rougher machined pieces. Guys in the trade do not consider rough filing sadism, they consider it job security. We are a blue collar trade and few of us are looking for a desk job. I have a 3 axis mill and a top flight CAD/CAM program. Finding a job in the guntrade that makes such high level programming pay is another issue entirely.