doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com :Opening chokes?

I have always wondered about this: Specifically, this seems to be a process that most owners take very casually. And yet, I ave read that to have it done by an ameteur- opened up by grinding from the muzzle can lead to a botched and uneven pattern. That it should be done from the chambers so that the new muzzle is concentric. Also, in very small amounts with testing in between. that one can ruin a gun if done poorly. How does one choose a smith who will do a good job? do any test pattern their work? Thanks! Robert

I've had many chokes opened by a gunsmith named David Lauer, now retired, from Boonville Missouri.

Lauer was particular, and had his own methods.

First you'd order what choke you wanted, improved cylinder, or modified. I always wanted a tight improved cylinder. Lauer would refuse to open any choke up that didn't leave what he determined sufficient wall thickness at the end to resist dents and damage. And he was quite proud of his barrel work, and there was no pellet counting or attempt to get a pattern percentage. This was an eyeball type affair, the object to produce a more open choke than before, but more importantly to produce a round, even, pattern that wasn't too center dense so as to tear up game. Lauer would stop, when he determined the patterns were up to his standards, and the customer had no say in when that happened. You gave him at least two boxes of the shells you'd mostly be shooting, for him to work with.

He'd use a choke reamer, from the front, and ream awhile, and go shoot the gun with the shells you provided. Lauer claimed he could ream a better choke from the front, where he could "feel the reamer cut" better, than from the rear. Then he'd ream some more, and shoot some more, and ream some more, until he called it good.

When the pattern circle was the size to suit Lauer, then he'd start in filing with either files or with a Dremel tool on the sides of the choke, to make the pattern round and fill in holes, he claimed. This was all some mysterious art. Then he'd shoot some more patterns. Maybe he'd file some more, and sometimes he'd ream again with the choke reamer. When he was done, he left the choke with the file and reamer marks, and didn't polish it.

Lauer never measured the constriction, this was all done from over fifty years of doing it.

It was all superstition or old time craftsmanship, whichever way you viewed it, but I love my David Lauer choked barrels. Most measure about .718 to .715 or so on a 12 gauge with a .729 bore diameter. All shoot wonderful patterns, and are useful for casual skeet, and anything else you'd like to shoot a shotgun with, to at least fifty yards. Use #9 shot and they open up, and use larger than #8 shot and they start shooting closer patterns. I'll miss David Lauer, but his gunsmithing days are now done. He would charge anywhere from $35 per tube to $60 or so, depending on how much trouble he said it was.

My new gunsmith is very scientific, and reams from the back, and you specify the constriction, ,010 for improved cylinder, for example, and he doesn't ream and shoot, ream and shoot, ream and shoot, like Lauer did.

If you want your chokes opened by mail order, use Mike Orlen.

http://users.dls.net/~rdouglas/MikeOrlen.pdf

He charges $50 per choke opened, and $20 return postage. Send the barrels with a check for the work, and he'll usually have them back in a week or two.

He also reams from the back, to your ordered constriction.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. Nice to hear options that forum users like to use.

pf, constriction tells the story. If the work is done in a craftsman like manner, there is little to be learned from a single pattern. To actually know, with modest precision, how your choke is really performing you need ten patterns and statistical analysis. Performance of patterns from same load and gun vary enough that single patterns are not a reliable predictor. The reason there is so much misinformation about chokes is that most data has been taken with very insufficient patterns. This is pretty much due to the difficulty in analysis. There is a program called Shotgun Insights that will read digital photos of patterns and perform the needed analysis. I recommend you go with a known smith and known constrictions or prepare to do some serious research with a whole bunch of patterns.


DDA

I've had excellent experiences with Bob Day in California http://www.americhoke.com/ and JJ Perodeau in Oklahoma http://jjperodeau.com/ . Both pattern as they ream and make sure POI is consistent for both barrels. Mark Beasland http://www.mbabllc.com/page/page/7927803.htm opened up a French 12-65 for me based on dimensions, and it shoots great.
As to whether its a good idea, that's a decisision each gun owner needs to make about each gun. Most of the shooting I do favors open chokes; if I like a field gun well enough to hold on to, it'll likely have the chokes opened at some point unless they're open already.

Very interesting... Thank you for bringing this up. I'll need to ask my local gunsmith how he does it.

What I wish I could do is find a way to put the metal back.

SRH

Key factor boring and reaming any hole is the set up. When you put the work in the lathe it has to be dialed in so the cutter will run true. Problem with higher quality older doubles is they are not straight. Barrels held together with wire and moved with wedges while the gun was regulated and patterned. Builder satisfied he laid the ribs fixing the barrels. They may be straight may not be.Quality judged by point of impact and pattern.

100 years later machinist has a order to work on the barrels, how is he going to set up. Is it straight or out a few thou half way, just in front of the chambers. or near the Muzzles. Wall thickness at the muzzles is small & your eye can see out of round easily. 100 dollars fee he�s going to set up close to the muzzle so it looks right and won�t take a lot of time.

How the gun patterns is not part of the job and few customers will check the work on paper. If he hits targets confidence goes up and is pleased with the work. Not arguing against opening but you get what you pay for and may not be happy with quick inexpensive work, or may be delighted.

Boats

Ralph Walker the late gunsmith from Alabama opened chokes from the muzzles and has a book showing how he did it. Bobby

As Gouegh Thomas said you can do one or the other. You can specify the constriction or you can specify the load to be used and the percentage in a circle at a specific range.