doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Alkanet Root "Revisited"

Men, I followed the alkanet root thread religously and have re-read it countless times. I'd like to clarify a few things with the two Englishmen, Salopian & Dig, as they appear to have "primary source" info from those retired stockmakers in the U.K.

Rose Pink seems to be sort of a mystery. I asked the infamous "Mad Monk", Bill Knight, about it & he said one would have to experiment making it from whiting & Brazilian logwood. For our English friends, Bill Knight is probably the foremost authority on black powder in the U.S. and is a chemist as well. Here's what he wrote to me about making "Rose Pink":

"The only way I can think of is that the whiting and logwood were ground in oil and then the oil applied to the stock. The whiting is not soluble in the oil and would break down if you heated the oil and added it. They may have used it like a grain filler. We see brown iron oxide pigment used as a grain filler/sealer on walnut wood these days. Watched that at the Martin Guitar factory above Allentown a few years back. And the commercial walnut gunstock fillers are the same thing. I have no idea as to what proportions of the whiting and logwood. You might have to experiment."

Dig & Salopian, is there any chance you could delve into this a little deeper as I'd like to experiment a little(?). By the way, I've read great things about the Chambers refinishing kit made in the U.K. Any opinions on it?

http://www.chambersgunmakers.co.uk/ultra.htm

The Chambers stuff works, as does Napier and CCL - all will do a good finish.

I just like experimenting with recipes I cajole out of people and find in old books - and adjustments of my own.

As an friend in the London trade said to me this week - some people will tell you they put bacon in their stock oil and that is the essential ingredient!

No idea about rose pink. I use rotten stone and oil as agrain filler mostly, gave up using a grain filler as you generally pull it ourt when rubbing off anyway! That is not to say that I will never use one again, just not in the habit at the moment.

I will post the details later, just logged on for a read before heading out for a busy day coaching.

'Rose Pink' Thomas Sheraton's formula (1803)
"1oz of whiting, finely pounded in a mortar with a decoction of Brazil wood"
Whiting = silica
Brazil wood = a hard timber, bright orange in colour with dark red stripes.
All my recipes endeavour to use the original 18th / 19th century (and 20th MY age?) ingrediants. I believe we can do better jobs using modern technology and products.But it just 'aint the same.
I still put hoss shite on MY Roses!!!!

Thanks Salopian, but I'm assuming one has to play with the amount of Brazil wood used.

I don't know if it's available in the U.K. but I'm having good results with an American product as a final finish. It has an amazing following here in the states. It's called Kramer's Antique Restorer and is all natural with a definite turpentine smell. It dries quickly as well. I am using it now as I have dyed the wood on a gun with the Behlen "Blood Red" dye that I read about on the first alkanet thread and it seems to work great. I was using Fiebing's Medium Brown Leather Dye but I had to dilute it with alcohol. One to two coats of the Blood Red works fabulously.

http://www.kramerize.com/

Small Bore, I tried a Napier kit a few years back but it contains no stain and I'm not a great believer in fillers as well.

i would just like to thank salopian for taking the time that he gives with his answers and experiences....the ..old alkanet root post...really helped me in finding the solutions to acheiving some great finishes...the only thing now is sometimes i cuss a little because it takes 5 TIMES LONGER...LOL AND LOVIN IT...THANKS SALOPIAN......GREG ZECHMAN

OK, I went for broke and refinished two rifle stocks & here's what happened. I used the Behlen "Bood Red" dye first. No stripping at all. All I wanted to do was refinish as they needed no sanding. I then used a couple of coats of Kramer's Antique Restorer and was going to use it as a final finish but it removed a lot of dye. Reapplied dye, two more coats. I then got a hold of some Waterlox Satin Finish but as one rifle has a pewter tipped forearm I tested it on a pair of garden shears for adhesion. After drying it wouldn't rub off. I then called Waterlox & tech support said it adheres to metal tenaciously. So, back to the good old Tru Oil. Four coats with light 0000 steel wooling after each coat (and 24 hrs. between coats). WOW!! That Behlen dye is the belle of the ball!! My rifles look like 19th century rifles right out of the factory!! Polished to a hand rubbed sheen!! Thanks for the Behlen dye tip, fellas!! Sorry, I cannot post photos as I have no cam. I'm sure a fella could probably take the finish out to the nth degree if he wanted to apply a Salopian or Dig London type multiple hand rubbed coats of linseed oil finish, but it would be hard to beat this combo I used IMO.