doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Re-forge Shotgun Tube into Pistol Tube

Below are a couple videos in which I cover my work to re-forge an old shotgun barrel tube forging into a tube for a pistol barrel. There was a question on this forum, asking where all the old damascus pistol barrels came from. I theorize that small bore damascus pistol barrels could be made by re-forging short sections of large bore barrels, which were originally created for use in shotguns.

The barrel tube that I re-forged, was given to me by Peter Dyson. I believe it to have been intended to finish out into a 20 gauge barrel. The tube was in the as forged state, just as it came from the barrel smith�s shop. This tube I estimate, to be approximately 100 years old.

Shortly after the question about the origin of damascus pistol barrels was posed on this forum, I stopped at Peter Dyson�s table at the Antique Arms Show to visit with him. Peter mentioned that people keep wanting to buy his tubes to make pistol barrels, but the bores were too large for that use. I told Peter about my theory of re-forging shotgun tubes. Peter handed me a section of barrel tube and said; �So go forge me a pistol barrel.�

The work to re-forge this barrel tube went quite well. I returned the tube to Peter and he was amazed that I could accomplish it. He wanted to ship me a crate of barrels to re-forge for him. I told Peter that he should be able to find blacksmiths in his area who could do this work for him.

It was my intention to forge this tube smaller in diameter than I did in this video. I believe the tube I re-forged could now be finished out into a .50 caliber barrel; maybe .45 caliber. I stopped work on it, because I had already had two of the original welds between the riband turns break. I successfully rewelded these breaks, but was reluctant to continue forging and risk wrecking Peter�s barrel. As it turned out, this tube was very odd. It was made up of ribands of two different damascus patterns. The scarf weld between the ends of the two ribands was very sloppy. If I was working with a sound tube section which also belonged to me, I would have had no hesitation to continue forging further.

My longer version of this video, includes the entire forging process and an overview of the tools which I used. This video, I shared with Peter so that he can provide it to any prospective blacksmiths who may be able to do the work for him.
The longer video also includes my rather lengthy commentary on the construction of antique damascus gun barrels. I comment on the differences (as I understand them) between British barrel making and Belgian methods. I also share my views on the purpose of using a chemise and what benefit could be had from it. Additionally, I share my expertise to dispel some of the incorrect assumptions which have been offered concerning the purpose of the chemise.

As we understand, the old damascus gun barrels, were welded up of wrought iron and low carbon steel. I made my damascus gun barrels out of modern steels. My barrels were difficult to weld and the steel was very hard under the hammer and a challenge to shape. I always expected that the old barrels smiths were working with a damascus material that was much easier to weld and forge. I found this to be very true, as the old tube of wrought iron and low carbon steel was almost frighteningly soft under the hammer. Twice, I had forge welds break while re-forging the old tube. Both times, I fluxed the break and easily rewelded the tube back together.

Although I feel that I definitely proved my theory that shotgun barrels can be forged smaller to create pistol barrels, I understand that this is not definitive proof that such was done historically. Unless documents can be found describing the making of pistol barrels which were written contemporary to damascus barrels being made, my theory is just conjecture. Though, it is definitely food for thought.

This was an amazing experience! How many people get to forge on 100 year old damascus?!

The shorter video is simply a condensed version of the longer one. It provides just an explanation of my theory and enough of the forging work to demonstrate how I went about it.

Long version:


Short version:

Wow, very interesting
Mike

can you do it - obviously

but did they do it?

making the longer fowler or shotgun barrel was a lot of work - then more work to re forge it

pistols for the most part were a luxury item - with finely made barrels - and a shorter barrel was easier to make in the first place

i expect it was horses for courses

Very generous of you to share so extensively. I wish I had the time now to watch the long version, but I'll have to save it for later. I really appreciate the section where you fixed the separated welds. That seems to be a tidbit on how to weld up a new damascus barrel from scratch. Thanks again.

Did they do it? I honestly do not know. And I do not make the claim that it was done historically. I only demonstrated that it was plausible. What I did find, is that the work of forging an old barrel tube to a smaller diameter is not difficult. Any skilled blacksmith could accomplish this work; and there would have been plenty of these skilled smiths available to do the work during that time period.



It would not have been cost effective to make fowler barrels with the intention of cutting them up into short sections for re-forging into pistol barrels. But as I mentioned in the video, there had to be some quantity of shotgun tubes which had a flaw somewhere along their length. The material these tubes were made from, was too valuable to waste. Given the ease at which these tubes could be re-forged, I believe that salvaging the defective fowler tubes to create pistol barrels would have been a logical conservation effort.

At the very least, I provided Peter Dyson and his customers with a workable method to create pistol barrels from the old fowler tubes. We will never know if re-forging tubes into pistol barrels was ever done, unless we find some documentation from that time period stating so.

While my video proves the plausibility of re-forging tubes to different bore sizes, I feel that the most significant thing shown is what it is like to forge this old material. I don�t know of any other blacksmith on the planet who has experienced forging old damascus. And I know thousands of smiths. Finally, there is someone who can describe what forging this material is like. As a highly experienced smith, who has made a lot of damascus from modern steel, I can tell you that the old damascus material is a blacksmith�s dream to work!

Not to take anything away from the skill of the old barrels smiths, but the material that they were working with is unlike any material we have available today. The old damascus is very soft at heat and easy (in comparison to modern steel) to shape with the hammer. The weldability of the old damascus is amazing. Certainly, the art of creating damascus gun barrels was at least as much facilitated by the material as it was the skill of the barrel smiths.

I�ll come back later, to comment more on the old damascus material.