doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gunbroker Damascas Ithaca question.

ClapperZapper, are you telling me I made a very bad mistake when I bought that 20 ga. Flues with 30" barrels last year? Should I put it deep in the gun room for safety sake or send it down the road to someone like yourself for proper evaluation and disposal if need be? The doves seemed to be as confused last year as well when the kept falling to the ground after merely seeing such a light weight wand, with so many flaws. It is a wonder I still have all eight fingers still to try to count to ten on good days.

hes trying to bleed every penny out of that gun that he can.....if it had steel barrels the price would be fine....but not for twist barrels....

Hmmm,

The Twist barrels were probably considered an Upgrade at the time. I'd gladly trade my steel barreled gun for one with Twist tubes.

Regards
Ken

Twern't Me Jon.

I have enjoyed the company of a bevy of Fluesies for many years.

That's a direct quote (that is once again making the rounds of the internet, among his other "opinions") copied from a well known gun mechanic's website.

In my view, shotguns that last 100 years being used as intended are a remarkable contraption.
I wish a Flues had a way to draw in the stock, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying them.

Nothing wrong with a good set of twist barrels "IF" loaded appropriately. While I Certainly do not recommend the practise I will have to say over the years I have seen any number of Twist Barrels, many of them being pitted & the guns loose as a goose, Digesting a goodly number of "Modern" SAAMI spec shells. I have not personally known of any of them "Un-Winding" like a coil spring or spreading shrapnel like a Grenade..

In fact I personally bought a Parts H grade Lefever with twist barrels, knowing it had a crack in the left barrel 14" ahead of the breech. The appearance was it had been hit against a sharp cornered object which had "Caved In" the side of the barrel. It had then likely been fired, thus damaged, & the barrel split in the corner where it had been dented in. One side of the crack was still bent inward while on the other side a little flap was raised up. Crack was approximately �" long & you could look through it & see the bore inside. Bore was rather heavily pitted. Stock had been cracked & had an ugly repair. Action itself was still tight & on face, though top lever was well to the left showing bolt wear but still locking down tight..
I put my dent plug under the damaged area & raised the bent in portion while simultaneously beating down the side which was lifted. Everything went back together until it became extremely hard to see just exactly where the crack was. Of course I could spot it as I knew where to look. I then tied it out to the "Firestone Proof Rack" & proceeded to fire several "Modern" 3�-1 1/8 loads through this barrel, followed these by several more 3 3/4-1 /� "High Brass" loads. These were followed by some more handloads which contained 1 3/8oz shot over a recommended load of Unique powder. This was not a particularly low pressure load.
After all this firing examination showed no discernable re-opening of the crack. There were not even any "Soot" smudges around it which showed any leakage of pressure.
This all occurred some 25-30 years ago. To date even though I have used several other Lefevers on a regular basis I have yet to need a part from this gun so it still sits in my rack. This did cause me to re-assess some of my thinking. It is still a valid reminder that the differences in a twist barrel & a live Hand Grenade are simply Miles & Miles apart with no real similarities between them.

I appreciate all the insight. Great Paper Drew.

The one thing I can't see in any of the 50 pictures of the gun is the choke markings near the front of the barrel flats. According to the serial number chronology in the Second Edition of Walter's book the gun is of 1911 vintage.



Back in those days, the Ithaca Field Grade with "Smokeless Powder Steel" barrels had a list price of $30 with an actual net selling price of $19.50 while the No. 1 with Twist barrels like this gun had a list price of $40 with an actual net selling price of $25.

re: safety of those new fangled fluid steel barrels

Ithaca said in 1898 that the barrels were "FOR BLACK AND NITRO POWDERS"



And stamped the lug with "NITRO POWDER PROVED" starting shortly after 1900



More reading here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LFnSG34k3mBhLEjEgU267wAlIa215MNVQZhIiY62Hx4/edit

Drew;
I may be all wet here, but I have "My" interpretation of this "Bored for Black and Nitro Powders". First off this same statement was used by several different makers. I believe the time it is most often seen was actually prior to the general "Condemnation" of Twist/Damascus barrels so do not think it truly was addressing the strength, it was assumed either type of barrels would be used with both types of powders.
What I believe it was referring to, & this is somewhat borne out in Lefever Arms Co catalogs via their recommendation of wads. Black Powder was quite often loaded into brass shells, hence bores were often oversize for the larger diameter wads.
Shells loaded with Smokeless were generally loaded in paper cases which used regular sized wads. I believe what Ithaca, Lefever & others were saying was they were now boting their barrels much closer to nominal size for use with the paper shells loaded with smokeless powders, but they were still suitable for use with Black.
The actual size of the bore had little to do with the barrel's strength.