doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 3 inch ammo

Trying to settle a question elsewhere - what year was the 3" 12ga ammo introduced?
TIA

DuPont Trophy Oct 24 & 25, 1895
Capt. John L. Brewer was using a Greener gun of high grade. His shells were the U.M.C. Trap, 3 1/4 inches long, 4 Drams of DuPont (Bulk) powder by measure; one trap wad, two pink felts, 1/4 inch 11-gauge wad and one ordinary 12-gauge pink edge wad over the powder and 1 1/4 ounces of No. 7 chilled shot; the shell had a very hard square crimp.

Fred Gilbert (1865-1928) was one of the world�s best known shooters of his time, using a L.C. Smith to win the DuPont World�s Pigeon Shooting Championship in 1895 and the "E. C." Inanimate Target Championship Cup in 1896. Von Lengerke & Antoine Co. marketed a Winchester 12 gauge Live Bird load with a picture of Gilbert on the box marked SPECIAL WADDING GILBERT, 3 inch, 3 1/4 Drams DuPont, and 1 1/4 Ounces (1220 fps) No. 7 T.C. shot.



1898 Grand American Handicap at Live Birds
E.D. Fulford, the winner, used a Remington hammerless gun weighing 7 3/4 lbs., 3 1/2 drams �Schultze� powder in U.M.C. Trap shells, three inches in length; 1 1/4 oz. No. 7 shot, a Union Metallic Cartridge Co. factory load.
Mrs. W.P. Shattuck was one of the participants (and) for a woman shoots a rather heavy charge. She uses an L.C. Smith gun weighing 7 3/4 pounds, 3 1/4 drams of DuPont powder 1 1/4 ounces No. 7 1/2 shot, in first barrel, and 3 1/2 drams, 1 1/4 ounces No. 7 shot in second barrel; loaded in a 3-inch Leader shell.

A 1903 UMC salesman�s catalogue shows paper 12 gauge shells available in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3, and 3 1/4 inch lengths (courtesy of Researcher).

The Super-X 3 inch 12 gauge shell with 1 3/8 oz of shot and the 2 3/4 inch 3 3/4 dram equivalent 1 1/4 oz load (1330 fps) were both introduced in 1922. Winchester/Western brought out the 12 gauge 3 inch magnum with 1 5/8 oz of shot in 1935, the same year as the introduction of the Model 12 Heavy Duck gun.

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of extra length paper shot shell cases is in the 1880 catalogue, before they were even offering loaded shot shells. Smokeless powder loaded shot shells begin appearing in the 1891 catalogue. While the �standard� 12-gauge shells were in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, the �standard� 16-gauge was 2 9/16 inch and the �standard� 20-gauge was 2 1/2 inch, paper 12-gauge shells were offered in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shot shells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage.

Ah Ha!
That would explain why my British live pigeon 12g from the teens has a 3" chamber & 1 1/4 Oz shot proof.
It also explains why another British live pigeon 12g gun I have, that is 1925-26 manufacture is chambered 3" with 1 1/2 Oz shot weight proof.
O.M

Moses: Wm. Cashmore Pigeon gun

That is an old one Drew.
Damascus, black powder & 3 1/4 cases.
Approx what year ?
O.M

Not mine but looks to be 1887 - 1896 by proofmarks. Laminated steel barrels.

What most people don't understand is that those longer shells were long to give more wadding as much as to deliver a heavier payload. Before plastic wads came into heavy use in the 60's getting tight patterns was much harder to achieve. We often fight too tight patterns where they were always fighting to make them tighter.

I should have included -- from our North American ammunition manufacturers -- in that statement. What some of the old time shooters stuffed in them who knows?



The 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge and one ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads were introduced in 1922. The 2 9/16 inch 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load was introduced shortly thereafter. The 3-inch Super-X load with 1 3/8 ounce of shot don't show up on the Western Cartridge Co. price lists until 1923. A.H. Fox Gun Co. included this slip in their catalogs and Super-Fox brochures when the progressive burning powder 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X loads finally came out --



Edited to change date shown in red, previously misstated as 1925.

This is so true, and a fact of history, but the why of it is what is so intriguing to me. I believe it is because of a change in the shotgunners, from then to now. From what I can read and understand there was a striving for excellence in shotgunning, in the bygone days, that no longer exists in many ways. Those shotgunners set unbelievable records at shooting matches around the world. They strove for better, and tighter, patterns because they believed they were able to utilize them to kill game more efficiently. And they were able to. Because ...... they worked at their sport, or their "craft" as was the case with the top shooters. They used single and two shot guns, and they hated to waste a shell with a miss.

Contrast that attitude with today's attitude of the average shotgunner. The average shotgunner today cannot hit what he's shooting at, flying, 30% of the time. And, the worst part, and the part that pertains to this diatribe, he doesn't care !!! Buy more shells, shoot more times at the bird with a semiautomatic, and complain to the others after the shoot, I just can't hit anything. Hell no you can't, because you don't ever try to improve. Misses are caused by mistakes. If you don't go to the trouble to get someone to help you find out what those mistakes are you will keep right on making them. Almost nobody really works at improving their shotgunning. They just complain and accept that missing 70% of the time is the best they can do.. I see this at the club everytime I go. The same guys, who are not handicapped in any physical way, seem okay just to miss over and over and over. And come right back next week to do the same, again.

And, not only the realm of shotgunning, but American society in general. America has been "dumbing down" for many years ....... accepting mediocre performance in all areas as "good enough". Compare the m/l baseball players physiques to those of 40-100 years go. Many pitchers are so badly overweight it's embarrassing. How about education? We won't even go there, but suffice it to say that we have created an atmosphere in America where lackadaisical performance is perfectly alright, even encouraged in some areas in the name of "acceptance of all". I am afraid this has crept into shotgunning, and is now getting firmly implanted.

So, what's the upshot of all this? Most people today do not believe that a target, or a dove, or a duck can be cleanly taken at the ranges our forefathers regularly killed them ........with inferior ammunition!! We opt for more open patterns to make up for our inability to place that pattern where it should be. We have the best guns and ammo ever produced, capable of the best shotgunning ever known to man ...... but we can't, for the most part utilize it. Sad commentary indeed.

SRH