Every film I have seen shows the Upper Crust opening the fired gun, whether one or both shells have been fired, ejecting the empties and handing the broked opne double to the loader, who then passes back the closed and loaded second gun (with safety catch on I presume)-- This is the way I saw it done in the H&H videos with Instructor Ken Davies-
RWTF, I'm not a coach or a loader, but I've been on a fair number of driven shoots in my time and never seen, or at least I can't recall ever seeing, a Gun breaking a gun open prior to passing it to his loader.
It sounds a time consuming and clumsy operation to me, with a good chance of clashing the barrels into the bargain. If Salopian passes by he might comment further, he's a regular loader and mentor.
Ian Coley in the clip below shows what I believe is the usual (and correct) way to shoot with a pair of guns; I've seen him for real on high bird shoots in Wales and chatted to him.
Ditto Dave Carrie ... first at around the two minute mark.
As to the Win 21s I bought and sold a "Duck" model about 15 years ago and made a modest profit. I didn't like it much, the woodwork behind the standing breech gaped quite a bit. I replaced it with a Beretta semi which was IMO a much better gun for geese on the foreshore. Sacrilege I know to some, but there we are.
OK with me. My chances of being invited to be a 'gun" when pegs are drawn in Old Blighty for a go at grouse, with a matched pair of Boss 12 bore game guns, are about the same as those of Donald Trump inviting me to be the next Secretary of Labor- or Labour for our Limey pals- I only know what I thought I saw in those great H&H Ken Davies videos- I do recall than when Ken was the "loader" or "stuffer' for then Managing Dir. of H*H- Jeremy Clowes if memory serves, Jeremy open the gun and ejected the fired hulls, and Ken dropped fresh shells into the breech for him-- no gun passing there- Have you seen those H&H videos-? Strange, because in the Sporting Clays series, Ken is shooting an American Ruger 12 O/U with the stainless steel (why?) receiver-Guess the late Bill Ruger never heard of the sniper axiom-- "No rattle-no shine"_-
No, I've never seen the videos, and you're right to distinguish "stuffing" from using a pair of guns.
Funny enough I used the 21 as a clay gun and got on quite well with it (Olympic Trench under lights at night) but never got with it as a live bird gun. I wasn't intending to sell it but one of the guys in the clay club made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The cash I got for a second hand Win was enough for a new Beretta AL391 Field, so no gripes.
Stuffing and passing are two entirely different procedures. The Chris Batha youtube video shows what passing is all about. It was filmed as a Shooting Sportsman shoot.
Yes siree- I'd run through a forest fire wearing my Napalm skivvies and nothing else to get a chance to shoot birds with Batha- also crows and pigeons with George Digweed-
From someone who likes to hunt behind a pointing dog, every model 21 I have handled was far to heavy for my personal uses. I am also not a fan of single triggers & beavertail forearms. Will I buy one? Sure, for the same reason I buy a lot of guns...to make a buck from someone who really likes them!
The quarter sawn oak table is especially nice, Bob.
Thank you Buzz.It's a Stickley reproduction by Joseph Heil in Pasadena California. Will seat 12. Eating at that table enhances the flavor of food by a factor of 2. I have a beautiful set of 100 year old Roycroft chairs to go with it. Come have dinner at my house.
Heres some chops off of a bone-in Pork roast. 10 spice dry rub and brown sugar. I cut them into "doubles" and smoked them for about 6 hours over Hickory. Garlic mashed potatoes and fresh asparagus. Eaten at, "The Table".
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