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Birmingham proofs #458464 10/07/16 08:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753 OH Osthaus OP Sidelock
OP OH Osthaus Sidelock Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753	i recognize all the marks except the one farthest to the right in this picture - sorts looks like a lion to me, but since the marks (except the bore) are normally vertical along the barrels it would not be standing on all four- its on a WW Greener - i think around 1869 -75 can anyone ID that one mark?

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458465 10/07/16 08:56 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 264 Likes: 23 Elkhart Lake WI. Hugh Lomas Sidelock
Hugh Lomas Sidelock Joined: May 2003 Posts: 264 Likes: 23 Elkhart Lake WI.	Greener Trade Mark of an Elephant Hugh Lomas, H.G.Lomas Gunmakers Inc. 920 876 3745

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458467 10/07/16 09:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,737 Likes: 96 Derbyshire, England lagopus Sidelock
lagopus Sidelock Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,737 Likes: 96 Derbyshire, England	Greener's held quite a few punches with the 'Elephant' Trade Mark. Some looked more like an elephant than others. A friend in the trade had one of the old elephant punches gifted to him. Sadly he passed away so I have no idea what happened to it. I guess they would be quite collectable. Lagopus.....

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458468 10/07/16 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753 OH Osthaus OP Sidelock
OP OH Osthaus Sidelock Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753	thanks guys - i wondered if it was a Greener specific mark

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458472 10/07/16 10:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2013 Posts: 666 Likes: 45 Atlanta, GA Dan S. W. Sidelock
Dan S. W. Sidelock Joined: Aug 2013 Posts: 666 Likes: 45 Atlanta, GA	Think the one on my former hammer gun from that era was slightly blurry as well. I believe the one on my boxlock made in 1892 was much crisper.

Re: Birmingham proofs lagopus #458482 10/07/16 11:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753 OH Osthaus OP Sidelock
OP OH Osthaus Sidelock Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753	Originally Posted By: lagopus Greener's held quite a few punches with the 'Elephant' Trade Mark. Some looked more like an elephant than others. Lagopus..... this one must be of the animal cracker variety of elephants

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458524 10/08/16 06:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2016 Posts: 190 Missouri Bibbyman Sidelock
Bibbyman Sidelock Joined: Jul 2016 Posts: 190 Missouri	I have an old W Richards side lever with simulator markings. Also Birmingham? The square mark? I was told the 14 was the bore gauge. It has 12 gauge chambers.

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458530 10/08/16 09:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753 OH Osthaus OP Sidelock
OP OH Osthaus Sidelock Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 753	yes - your marking are standard black powder markings for a Birmingham gun of the time- and 14 is the size of the bore as proofed- I think that is quite common - I don't think I have a British hammer gun with markings less than the chamber size - 12 ga's are 13's or 14's and the 10 is marked 10 bore and 12 muzzle

Re: Birmingham proofs OH Osthaus #458536 10/08/16 10:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 12,743 Lynchburg TN 2-piper Sidelock
2-piper Sidelock Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 12,743 Lynchburg TN	Realize this gun was proofed prior to 1887 & no "Tween" sizes were used prior to that date. 14 gauge = .693" & 13 gauge = .710". When proofed this gun's barrels accepted a .693" diameter plug gage but would not accept a .710" one. Its bores could have been as large as .709" & still carried the 14 mark. In 1887 the between gauges were introduced as 14/1, 13/1 etc as well as the chamber marking, as of 12 over C in a diamond. There were many 12ga guns proofed in the Birmingham house with "12" bores.They simply stamped the size according to what the maker sent them. Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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