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I have a very close working Griff a.k.a "Griffon Kortalis a poil d'arret dur" to the French. They can be bread to be very close working, but are not bootlickers. She will not get out of visual range and works about 30-50 yards ahead which is fine for the grouse woods I hunt.

I have a friend with a Braque Francais that will not hunt. I'm sure there are many that are great hunters but this one did not "turn out".

Owen, I hunted with Italian Bracco's for 25 yaers and not 1 of my dogs go out of my shooting range (the range you mention in your topic), it is how you learn them. As French is the second language in Belgium, it is a "Griffon Korthals chien d'arret a poil dur". Owen, sorry I can understand you if French is not your language, it is like English for me, so I also make mistakes.
Cheers, greetings from Belgium, Marc.

Gettemans you are correct. Sorry I am traveling and typed hastily. I have a copy of the fine work on the breed by Jean Castaing entitled Le Griffon d'Arr�t � Poil Dur Korthals which I have struggled through with a petit Larousse and recommend to anyone interested in the breed.

Nice working dogs. Never hunted Grouse with them but I bet they would be good at it. If you can get bye hunting with a GSP with Charles de Gaulle's nose

Good point, Dustin. There are always exceptions to generalizations. I hunted with several down at Ringneck Ranch in KS. Preserve dogs. All were close working, as is my hunting partner's French Britt. (Pretty sure the preserve wanted them pretty close.) As for Griffons being close, the only one I've hunted with--several days--tried to keep up with a shorthair with a pretty serious set of wheels. It was fairly warm and did not work out for him. Their reputation is also closer working and more laid back than wirehairs. This one wasn't. You could also hear the bones crunch when he retrieved pheasants.

I'm not sure whether I'd give the ugly pointing dog award to the Spinone or to the Braque du Bourbonnais.

I've got a friend who has 2 of them (braque francais). His female is a nice dog, however, the male is a below average dog and very aggressive with other males and even towards male humans. I'd put a bullet between the male's eyes, but my friend is so kennel blinded he can't give up on this dog. The dog was attained as a pup and socialized properly, so it's a guess why he's so nasty (this nasty disposition in this particular male may be an exception because as a rule the breed is not generally supposed to be aggressive). These dogs seem to be ground sniffers......that's great if that's what you are looking for. I personally prefer dogs with their noses in the air, so I'm sticking with English Pointers and Setters. I'm a firm believer there are good/great dogs in all breeds, though.

A regular hunting partner bot a Braque Francais bi##ch three years ago. She was imported from Canada. Very nice house dog I am told but below par as a grouse dog. Despite some time with a PD pro in her first year and plenty or opportunities, she didn't point a grouse until she was over 2 YO. Don't know if she has a subpar nose or limited pointing instincts; but doesn't make the grade as a cover dog. (From a sample size of ONE).



If I wanted a Continental PD, I would get a Britt or a GSP. There are plenty of good lines from both breeds to chose from.

NB

Natty, you make a good point. Relatively rare breeds in this country, like the braques, have pretty small gene pools. Meanwhile, there's no problem finding good shorthair or Brittany breeders.

Roger that, Larry.

Honestly, if a guy wanted a pointy type dog for any NA upland game bird, he would be well advised if he just chose one of the "Big Four" breeds. Namely, English pointer, English setter, Brittany and German Shorthaired pointer. These are the most popular pointing dogs here in the US and there are good reasons for that. The gene pools of these four are wide and deep and you can find any kind of personality, size, color, range and other characteristics that might suit your fancy.

Carry on......