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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
The pad just says "Whiteline" with letters atop one another running from heel to toe...Geo
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302 |
I have an honest question.
Is a JM Browning designed shotgun, however nicely embellished, that is built, (presumably under license), by FN actually considered a "Browning"?
I thought all "Browning's" must have "Browning" somewhere on the firearm. With Browning being a US corporate concern.
It get's a little more complex when you start to consider the status of the licensee's of the "Browning pattern".
Anyone wish to clue me in?
Out there doing it best I can.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 520
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 520 |
All "Browning" Auto 5s were built by FN, Remington, or Miroku. Browning has never built a gun.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302 |
My question isn't about who owns what factory.
It's really, "What makes a Browning in the marketplace?"
None of the A-5 clones seem to have much of a following.
Out there doing it best I can.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 775
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 775 |
Browning did make and sell some guns in the beginning. He and his brothers built and sold about 600 single shot rifles before selling the patent to Winchester. When Winchester and Browning couldn't come to terms on the automatic shotgun, John Browning went to Belgium with the design. FN was already building several pistols under Browning's patents and jumped at the chance to build the automatic shotgun. Browning built them under the FN name for sale in Europe, and Remington and Savage built them under license in the US. FN built the guns that were imported to the US by the Browning Arms Co. before and after WWII.
During WWII, Remington built guns under the Browning name until Browning got back in production in Belgium.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
Zapper I think the factor that matters in regards to your question is whether an FN Browning is the same thing as a "real" Browning. And the fact of the matter is that the "real' Browning was the one built by FN.
That is what the Belgian Browning built for most of the 20th century is, the gun built for the Browning Company by and under contract with Fabrique Nationale of Belgium (FN). The one above was built in the same factories as the ones badged Browning and sold here by the Browning Company. This one just (presumably) went to the European market.
The Miroku Brownings came late in the game, and the Remington Model 11s and Savage gun were not Brownings, but built on his patent again by contract. I think there were other browning patent guns built by others, but the only one that is a true Belgian Browning is the FN product.
The story I have heard is that after Winchester did so well with its Model 97 pump built on John M. Browning's patent he tried to sell Winchester his patent for the semi-automatic gun, what became the A-5. Winchester seems to have rebuffed Mr. Browning by making him wait for some time to see the Wichester president.
Mr. Browning waited a while, the put on his hat and his coat over his arm and went to the Telegraph station and wired Fabrique Nationale to see if they wanted to build his new gun. The rest is history and the Belgian Browning was born...Geo
or something like that; I'm sure Researcher or someone will correct my post.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 76
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 76 |
George, that is accurate as far as I know with the addition that Browning also went to Remington to start production, Remington wanted the gun but the CEO of Remington had a heart attack before they could start production. Browning then went to FN and the rest is history. Remington did start production as the Model 11 in 1905 and built around 850,000. Here is how my first year 1903 is marked, also note the first year did not have a magazine cut off.  
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
The Story I have always heard is that browning refused to Sell the patent for the A-5 to Winchester, fearing they would not put it in production, but shelf it. He demanded it me made under royalty. When Winchester refused this offer he went to Remington. After waiting for some time to see whom he was supposed to see, President of Rem, as I recall he was finally informed the man had suffered a heart attack & passed away. He then gathered up his gun & went to Belgium.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,895 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,895 Likes: 110 |
The barrel is marked "Poldi Anticorro". What is this about? From what I've seen and read the early A5 barrels were Cockerill Steel and a bit later some marked Acier Special Steel and then mostly just Special Steel. From a European catalogue back in the day -- 
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
Researcher, this one is marked Poldi Anticorro and is serial numbered to the frame. The Barrel also has a solid rib as opposed to the model 7201 shown in the ad you posted. I hope you know my reference to being corrected by you was in jest and that I and all of us, I'm sure, appreciate your willingness to share your encyclopedic knowledge with those of us who just want to know...Geo
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