doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com speculations about the 2" chambered gun

I have been interested in these guns for many years. I've handled several, hunted with one I used to own and read many articles about their history. All the British ones were around five and a half pounds and I've come to believe that perhaps a big reason they were developed was the large number of men with missing limbs as a result of the war. It's quite possible to shoot these guns one handed. While smaller bore guns could be just as light, during that period there was a feeling that only women or old men would use them. The 2" gun looks like a standard 12 bore. I think keeping the chamber short was to insure that a standard cartridge couldn't be used in such a light gun, not so much for reasons of excessive pressure but for excessive recoil. It's quite possible to build a sub 6 lb. gun with 2 3/4" chambers. I've fired one and a quarter ounce loads through such a gun but I wouldn't want to do it often So what do you think? Was the 2 inch gun just a whim dreamt up by a marketing genius or was there a real need for it?

I had always been told that it was a response to older hunters wanting a lighter gun to go afield with to do "rough shooting". Standard-weight guns being used in driven shoots is one thing, but when you actually had to carry your own weapon, well....I dare say, old boy, that sounds like work!

Your theory sounds plausible as well.

The 2" shell was actually developed years before the 2" gun. Light loads for standard Brit game guns. Then, during the between the wars years when competition was tough and new guns weren't selling all that well, someone came up with the idea of a gun specifically designed for the short shells. Sort of like the Churchill XXV: at least part marketing ploy, to offer something the competition didn't have.

The early 2" guns underwent the same standard British proof as 2 1/2" guns. Later--during the 50's, I believe--the proofhouses established a lower proof standard for 2" guns. All the Spanish 2" guns made more recently were subjected to the CIP standard proof.

nialmac,
The origins of the 2 inch cartridge dates back to 1897 at which time London gun maker Charles Lancaster introduced a 2 inch and a 2 1/4 inch 12G cartridge that he named the "Pigmy," These cartridges were loaded with 1 ozs; or 1 1/8 ozs of shot; more importantly with smokeless rather than black powder which allowed the case length reduction. The intent was to use these cartridges in guns chambered 2 1/2-2 3/4 or 3 inches.The result was less than satisfactory with many reports of balled shot and much adverse press.[See Experts on Guns and shooting pages 265-278.] The result was that the cartridges rapidly faded from the market.
30 years later the trend was to lighter weight gun and the 2 inch cartridge was reintroduced this time for use in 2 inch chambered guns. The prime manufacture of these 2 inch guns for the trade was the Birmingham firm of Skimmin and Wood, whose name is currently owned by,F.J.Wiseman Cannock ,Staffordshire.
In my opinion the 2 inch gun was made for general use not for any specific customer group I am sure it was welcomed by the disabled,aged and young sportsmen/women.

I own a 12 ga. Grulla that was ordered with 2" chambers and subsequently bored out to 2 3/4". The gun weighs 7 pds. 4 ozs. They apparently used standard weight barrels. Why it was originally ordered with 2" chambers is a mystery to me.

I agree Austin, it tends to defeat the object. I have one made by Skimmin & Wood but using the name J & W.Tolley which was a name owned by them. It weighs in at 5 pound 5 ounce with 26 inch barrels. In the right circumstances it is a delight to use. Lagopus.....

All the modern Spanish 2" guns I've seen, with the standard 850 bar proof, seem to tip the scale at around 6#--which is, in most cases, a good half pound more than the weight of a Brit 2".

True Larry, but I had one at 5 3/4 lbs. I've also measured the width of the breach of standard Arrieta 12 bores and their 2" chambered guns. The 2 inchers are trimmer, only a sixteenth of an inch wider than their 16 bores. I've often thought of ordering a new one with 25" barrels and 14" stock. I'll bet they could bring it in at 5lb. 10 ozs.

2" 12ga guns allow use of 20ga shot loads with better patterns, due to fewer shot "scrubbing" the barrel.This was before shot protecting wads.
Mike

Lagopus, Even with the lengthened chambers on my Grulla the the wall thickness at the beginning of the forcing cones is 0.98". How does that compare with the wall thickness of english guns with unaltered 2" chambers?