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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20 |
I am in the process of acquiring a Charles Lancaster double rifle. The rifle barrels flats are marked 500 EX 3" CASE 115 G** N*6 (asterisks indicate unreadable text). I only have pictures and the proof marks are not clear. The serial number is 7421. I am trying trying to find out more about the gun and could use some help. The 500 express apparently can be loaded in black powder, nitro for black powder and nitro express. I am woefully ignorant about English guns in general and since I don't have the rifle in hand and cannot verify the proof marks. I would welcome any and all information this forum could offer. Thanks in advance. Doug K
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,999 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,999 Likes: 402 |
Doug, the powder charge for your rifle is 115 gr of #6 black powder, most likely Curtis and Harvey powder. The 500 ex should never be loaded for a full nitro load. Stick to BPE or nitro for black loadings. How much does the rifle weigh? Steve
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20 |
Steve, thanks for the speedy reply. I don't know the weight as I am purchasing this from a friends widow. Any and all information about the gun that you might provide would be helpful. I have visited your website and would be happy to email photos privately. I suspected it was a black powder rifle. I am unsure of the year of manufacture but suspect it is pre 1920's. It has some light engraving and the dark wood is nicely figured. It does not, however, have a 3-leaf sight on the barrels but only a single leaf. For what range is regulated for is unknown. I have been looking online for a Charles Lancaster collector group but have been unsuccessful. As to where any production records are located I haven't a clue.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,999 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,999 Likes: 402 |
Doug, feel free to send me photos. The single leaf sight was most likely regulated for 50 yards. Sometimes they were regulated for multiple distances by using different sight pictures, ie seating the bead fully in the V for 50 yards, floating it at the top of the sight for greater distance. Proofmarks will give an idea as to when it was made as will makers address and serial#. Steve
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18 |
According to Nigel Brown's book, No.7421 should date to c.1894/95.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 544
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 544 |
You don't want to use full nitro loads in that rifle. There's a vast, vast difference between a 500 BPE and 500 NE. Your target should be a 340-380 gr. bullet at about 1800 fps. That's good for anything on the North American continent with the possible exception of the biggest bears. If it regulates as good as my Reilley you're looking at 2 inch composite groups at 50 yards.
NRA Benefactor 2008 NRA Patron 2007 NRA Endowment 1996 NRA Life 1988
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20 |
Thanks everyone, this gives me a lot more information. I appreciate every and any information that I can receive. I appreciate the book references. If anyone has a source for cases, projectiles, powder and loading dies that would be very helpful as well.
Regards, Doug K (NRA LIFE and NRA ENDOWMENT)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 181 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 181 Likes: 18 |
Doug
Bob Woodfill wrote a wonderful article in the Black Powder Cartridge News Issue 81 Spring 2013 on the .500 Express. Plenty of historical information, and also loading with components available today. It will probably answer a lot of your questions.
BPCN is 307 587-7621, and their back issues are quite reasonably priced.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1 |
Doug K. Bill Flemings book on British Sporting Rifle Cartridges has no less than three pages devoted to this round. There were many variants in length and construction, the earliest being coiled brass foil like the early .577 Snider and .577/450 Martini-Henry service rounds.
I would advise you to remove the Forearm and take the barrels off. On the underside of the breech end there will be proof Marks and also on the Actions Water Table. These will indicate whether it is Black Powder or Nitro proved. Often the bullet weight and the Powder charge for which the rifle is regulated is included in the proof markings. It's quite a potent cartridge and fully capable of taking any North American game and predators up to and including Grizzly and Polar bears. Not so sure how good it will be on Sasquatch in its BP loading. Lol. If the rifle is BP proof don't use any other powder. It isn't worth the risk, and clean up is easy. Harry
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 20 |
Steve, thanks for the Nigel Brown book reference. I believe I will order the 3 volumes offered on Amazon because they appear to be very interesting historically.
Mike, I intend to order the referenced Black Powder Cartridge news issue referenced. The magazine is something I believe I will subscribe to - Thanks for the information.
Harry, thanks for the Bill Fleming book reference. I would love to own the Bill Fleming book but the $499.00+/- Amazon price will be something I have to save for. I do have a favorite book monger who sells his wares at the local gun shows who may have a copy.
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