doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com C&R Question

There is probably no answer to this but can anyone tell me why so many people on the auction sites refuse to accept a C&R license on a C&R qualified gun?

Mitch,

Just a guess,but I think it is that it is confusing as to what actually qualifies? I sold a double that should have qualified easily under the "50 year" rule, but for some unknown reason, the manufacturers name was specifically disqualified in BATF regulations!? This concerned me so I asked for an FFL. The buyer kindly agreed and complied.

Kurt

Kurt,
How, where, did the BATF specifically disqualify the manufacturer?

I can understand being confused about a gun that is not named on the C&R list. What I think is stupid is to refuse to accept a C&R for a gun that is named on the list.

I was aware of a list of C&R eligible guns. My understanding was that the C&R eligible list, plus any gun over 50 yrs old that is not on the NFA list is eligible to be purchased directly with a C&R.

I have had a C & R license for a number of years. I agree with the reply from Chuck H. If any gun is particularly named on the published list by maker and model number, sometimes by a range of serial numbers, but not always, OR if the gun can be definitevely prooved to be over 50 years old (by date codes or serial number published charts or other means) it is also eligible. I have never seen in the booklet any gun eligible because it's over 50 years old stated to be NOT eligible for any other reason. Now, don't confuse any C & R eligible gun with full auto regulations. A 50 year old MG is eligible under C & R licensing rules, but still must meet other full auto rules, and I don't even know what they might be since I don't handle any, only that the C & R license alone is not sufficient for full auto or other restricted items. I would like to see more details about the manufacturer being specifically disqualified in BATF regs, I have never seen any such regs.

There are sellers on the auction sites that for reasons only known by themselves will not sell to anyone in California, even 01 FFLs. Now I agree Calif laws are a bit dumb; but there are states that have worse restrictions. These sellers only hurt their own sales by restricting legitimate bidders. It is possible that they are being terrorized by the BATF for some reason and are being ultra cautious. Some of the C & R dumbness may be caused by the inability to verify a 03 license, my feeling is that the BATF does not view the C & R licensee as a problem. If a seller doesn't want my money, so be it, there are plenty that do.

Ray's in NJ wouldn't hand over a Fulton to me when I bought it with my C&R. Must be some NJ law they interpreted as not being able to give it to me. I didn't want to hand carry it anyway and was hoping they'd ship it to my house. They did. I was satisfied. But, my understanding is that they should have been able to hand it over directly, regardless of state laws?

ChuckH and others,

Not being in the business I was perhaps overly cautious and lazy, but the gun I was selling was a Baker shotgun made in, if I remember correctly,(I sold it) 1936. The BATF curio and relics section lists the Manufacturer, but to include the years 1899 thru 1919. As said my gun was made in 1936. If I was more of an expert on the subject or had explored further I may have been able to accept the gentleman's C&R, but he offered an FFL so I took it. I don't play the lottery or have any interest in Vegas or cheat on my taxes, in part because I can't afford fines, jail or just plain loosing money. I don't know, but why do people get C&Rs rather than FFLs? It is curious to me that a double barrel shotgun made in 1936 would not be a relic, but at the same time I bought a combination gun 22mag/20ga and the instant background system was not online so I had to leave it in the store and return after 3 days. I was charged the instant check fee anyway. It is unlikey that if I was hot to murder someone I would have bought such a gun to do it, but the law is the law and I'm willing to vote to change it , but not screw around with it! Like I said I am certainly no expert on C&R or FFL law! I will ask again if one could offer the reason one gets a C&R instead of an FFL? Thank-you.

Kurt

One gets a C & R license to be able to act as a "collector" of "Curios and Relics" and be able to ship and receive C & R classified guns directly through the mail or other common carrier (UPS, FedEx) WITHOUT having to pay an FFL holder to receive the gun for you. A "Collector of C & R" guns cannot be in the "business" of buying and selling. They do permit selling occasional guns from your collection, but there can be no "dealing" in firearms with the intention of profit. A C & R licensee cannot buy directly any gun built after the cut off of the C & R period, which is expanding as time is on-going. In order to buy "modern" guns we have to go through a "dealer" just like you. BTW, all these old double barelled shotguns that are at least 50 years old that we all love, and you are able to demonstrate that they are over 50 yers old, are eligible. They DO NOT have to be particularly listed in the booklet, just have to be over 50.