doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com self-opner/ easy-opner

hello from paris
here's my question:
what is the difference between self-opner and the easy-opener
thank you in advance

I do not own either of these shotguns, but strictly from what I have read-- The Purdey was available with a self-opener or assisted opening feature- spring loaded trips that when you fired each or both barrels, and moved the top lever over to open the gun, "assisted" the opening of the breech and to then allow the shells to be ejected- when you re-loaded and then closed the gun, you were moving the leverage of the barrels on the fulcrum (hinge pin) against the re-cocking spring pressure of both the tripped ejectors and also the "assist" Jack O'Connor discusses this in some detail in his 1965 "The Shotgun Book" in his chapter on the English guns as on page 35.

Easy-opening- a Winchester M21 and I believe the Ruger O/U series have some for of opening design- I have read that when you examine a M21 for the first time and open it, it may seem "loose"- That comes from the book "Good Guns Again" by Stephen Bodio 1994- page 43. I do not know how far into the production run that was- and if the M21's today made by Galazan have that design or not.

Hope this helps a bit!!

Both are spring operated mechanisms. They are an evolution to the gunmaker's highest art. I believe the only true self-opener is that of the Beesley action, like the Purdey. H and H claims they have one but it seems more assisted to me, having handled both. There are others as well. The drawback to a true self-opener is they are hard to close. I don't believe Win 21's are assisted.

Erudite as ever, it is Gough Thomas who I think covers this well. He says that 'some guns are self-openers before they are fired, but not after. These are not true self-openers. The distinction rests on whether, when both barrels have been discharged, the force of the mainspring (as in the Purdey/Beesley action) or of some auxiliary spring (as in the Holland & Holland and Lancaster Twelve-Twenty actions) is freely available for throwing open the gun, and whether it is adequate for that purpose. Some guns, such as the Westley Richards Connaught or the Churchill Hercules, which, like several others, use the Smith action, are more accurately described as easy-openers.'

Tim

Nah - H&Hs with self-opening mechanisms are a true self openers.

Boss also made some true self openers. They're rare, though.

I like Boss's self-opening system the most. Purdeys are neat, but I don't see any real benefit to the Beesley action. Due to the requirements of the action/spring, I think it's tough to make it in smaller gauges. That's why a lot of the 20s, 28s. and .410s look so funky. I think the Beesley action is kind of complex, too.

I think Dickson RAs are self-openers along with Lancaster wrist breakers. I don't know much about those guns.

Don't know about the American guns.

And Thomas is right - self-openers always open by themselves (or with minimal assistance) -- fired or not.

OWD

Purdey's and Holland and Holland's are self opener's Boss's are assisted opener's. Also like Cogswell and Harrison they have to be pulled open after firing.

The Lancaster Model A (Wristbreaker) & Purdey are true "self openers". The Holland is an assisted opener but they like to use the term "self opening" when describing their action. The reality is...the Holland is only a self opener if it hasn't been fired . Fire the Holland action, especially both locks and see how it "self opens"...it doesn't. What it does is "pops" open but does not pop open enough to cock the action or eject the hulls...the coil spring under the barrels does not have the strength to do both of these jobs. It helps if the H&H is equipped with longer, heavier barrels to aid in the force of the drop.
Both the Lancaster and the Purdey vigorously spring open whether cocked or uncocked, the Lancaster cocks the locks and ejects the hulls without any effort from the person using the gun other than pushing the top lever over to the right, the Purdey cocks on closing, but the action has enough force to eject spent hulls.

We've gone over this before....a topic that seems to come up every few months or so.

Dustin

A litte more detail, courtesy of Dig:

Sidelock actions

The so called assisted opener like the Cogswell and Harrison ,were not aclualy any thing of the sort. It is simplly that the ejector springs behind the extrators are pushing the extractors out rather as with many modern O/U s ,thus pushing against the face and appering to asssist with opening . When the gun is fired the extractors are held back so there is no spring pressure and thus there is no assist.
Self openers are generaly Purdey ,Boss ,Lancster wrist breaker and twelve /twenty's [others made similar] Churchill {Baker}and the box lock self opener {Smith's] made by Churchill ,Rosson and others . There are a couple of others that have been produced but they are lagely variations on a theme and produced in only small numbers.

And your boy Gough Thomas also had high praise for the Winchester M12 pumpgun--how this came about I do not know, but I have read his book several times. It is my impression that showing up at a driven bird shoot with a pumpgun in Lime-land would be a faux pas in league with breaking wind when in the presence of the Queen-- "Not proper form, old boy"!!