doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Woodward Restoration

I suppose it has something to do with them not being original to the gun, will they affect the "feel" of the gun adversely, the unsightliness of a poorly done job.

Remember that the "feel" (I assume you mean handling dynamics) of an old Brit gun is unlikely to be OE due to "aggresive" barrel maintance/honing. Soooo, sleeving gives the (new) owner an opportunity to adjust the gun's handling dynamics in the direction he desires via barrel length and wall thickness profile.

" --- the unsightliness of a poorly done job." A matter of willingness to pay for good work; an unwillingness to pay for bottom feeder work while hoping the "craftsman" will, by some miracle, gift you a first class job.

Remember the poem, "The Wonderful One Hoss Shay?" Well it applies to guns as well, perfect logic sure as he%%!

http://holyjoe.org/poetry/holmes1.htm

DDA

Ref the blacking of dissimilar steels showing up poorly in angled / diffused light or fading with flux migration.

In my youth (before the Civil War) I was a process chemist in a very large metal finishing outfit. We had a wrinkle for handling welded and brazed assemblies that were to be blacked (hot blacking in this case, the nitrate / nitrite / caustic variety).

The entire piece was iron plated before any other processing; from memory to about .0005". Mostly these were for military applications, no one else would bear the costs that the MOD would. The MOD inspectors were pretty pernickity and again from memory we never had one slung back.

I see no reason why it shouldn't work with sleeved barrels if someone really wanted to push the boat out. Simple enough to do, and not expensive if you already have the basic electroplating hardware to hand. You might have to piddle about a bit to find an optimum deposit thickness, but that's all.

Eug

I wont advertise all the work that is going through my shop at the present . But if any of you are willing to pay �12000 for a �2000 gun that has been restocked and rebarreled by another ,give me a call.
As to blacking sleeved barrels ,it will depend on the blacking ,some will cover with no problem others will show the diferent steels ,in colour differential. Birmingham blackers have no trouble where as some of the so called best London black will show the different steels . Belgian black which is a slower process also dose not cover well. Any of the guns I have had sleeved ,be they steel or damascus originaly have blacked with no problem.

Gunman, you occasionally have interesting information to share. It is a shame you seem incapable of posting without some barbed comment. Time to stop sucking all those lemons mate!

Just curious, is anyone sleeving in the US to the quality standards Dig is referring to when he describes "best" sleeving?

I too get a chill when I read an ad that reveals a sleeved gun.

But the more I think about it, the more I don't have a good reason for that. I'm never buying a best Purdey or Woodward in top condition. I just can't spend that much on a gun. I don't collect for "originality" either, although I understand the impact of that on value in the broader collector market.

I buy guns because I like them, because I find them interesting and beautiful tools and because I love being able to bring something that has seen a hard 80 to 120 years back to usefulness. The only issue I have is trying to have whatever work done to the highest standard and appropriate for the gun. That's just me. Sleeving, done well, fits my gun collecting ethos.

Dig, I love what you are doing with these refurbished "bespoke" guns.

Those with an 'aversion' to sleeved barrels, because of their lack of originality - does that extend then to guns with new barrels too? How about a new stock? Are you saying, "If it isn't the way it was when it came off the bench all those years ago, I'm not particularly interested"?

OK, I cannot stand it anymore. I love sleeved guns . I would never have been able to own a wonderful Dickson triggerplate, or even a super James Kirk SLE. Let alone a wonderful Lajot from Belgium, if I had not had the guns sleeved. Modern sleeving from England and even in the U.S. is done perfectly , especially on a gun with original fluid steel barrels. The welded joint and the welded and remachined rim recess are not detectable after refinishing . If sleeved, you have a gun that is ready for the next one hundred years, and that's good enough for me. Two decades or so ago , I bought a nice, out of proof Dickson round action. I had it sleeved by John Foster and it is beautiful. I think I had less than $3000 in the gun after sleeving and now I see this type of sleeved gun offered for three or four times what I had invested.

Bringing back a gun with sleeving is a wonderful option, and I encourage the same be done with the cool Woodward Smallbore has. I would love a gun like that.

Very good topic and would be interesting to get others take on it. From an originality standpoint it sullys the gun, but from a use standpoint it improves it. Restocked and rebarreled by the maker if at all possible lends a lot to provenance and desirability. There is an ass for every hat though, so the collector guys can be patient, while us mortals can pick the less pristine or born anew

Gunman is a formally trained gunmaker. Which makes his EXPERT opinions somewhat valuable. Just have to know how to take them is all. Unlike JoEy, he does offer good, professional advice. And what gunmaker do you know that isn't a bit snippy from time to time? :-)

Dustin

Dig or anyone else: Could you explain the process using the TIG joint. I don't see how it could be all that much different than using a solder joint. I think the seam area would be chamfered to receive the weld. The only key would be getting a skilled welder, it would seem. I am really interested in the best sleeving technique and am interested in learning it. I have at least three "sleevers" where the joint is soft soldered and they are excellent as shooters. But when I get a really nice gun with hosed barrels, I would like to pursue this. Thanks!