doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belguim Guild Gun - Thoughts

I dont know where they are buying their "entry level "spanish guns ,but I sure would like to sell them some of mine!! Greg as has been noted Belgian guns run from scrap iron to as good as any anywhere.I have several Belgian shotguns that are lower to mid level and I think I paid 500 dollars for the most expensive one(not nearly as pretty as that one) caveat emptor.

It used to be said on here by the cognocti that in buying guns Belgium or otherwise to buy the gun not the name. If the gun in question is especially well made inside and out, possibly as well or better than some of the work of London bests, shouldn't we be interested in it based on it's quality. Someone has to be the discoverer of an equal to a best gun to bring it into the light and all best guns don't originate in the UK. In many ways the dependence on an English name to determine value has become a crutch for the uninformed.

Too bad we can't run a blind taste test on guns to determine which are best made, best handling etc. I think you might find a lot fewer "English Bests" on top of the list. Subtract out the marketing hype about a best has to be stocked to the fence and a few more other guns will come to the surface as well. IMHO.

The "problem" with unnamed (guild) shotguns is, at some price point, most folks want a "name" and perhaps a little story to tell before disclosing (justifying?) how much they paid.

IMHO, not many folks are willing to drop $6k on a no name gun unless it's truly special.

YPPMV

True. Even though it may be a quality gun, the fact is it won't go for the price of a name gun. Unfortunately, that's the way it is with everything. If a person is just interested in the quality aspect of it and doesn't care if money will be lost down the road, then it is justifiable. However, why not just get one that will hold value or increase.

In my opinion the engraving on the gun in question is rudimentary for a Belgian engraver. I'm not saying that the engraving is bad but it could be done by a student with two years at the Leon Mignon engraving school.

RB

I was not arguing the particular virtues of this gun, just that the comments all seemed to be running to "if it ain't English don't buy it". I have seen a lot of English clunkers too. And $6000 doesn't an English name best procure unless it is from the dawn of time.

I think that in general, the bad rap on Belgian guns comes from really old ones, when a lot of American "hardware store" guns were made in Belgium. And sometimes given catchy names which bore close resemblance to famous makers. Others may have different experiences, but I can't think of any Belgian guns I've seen with modern (post-1924) proofmarks that I'd describe as junk, based on original quality. They run the gamut from very basic to very fancy (as do Brit guns, for that matter), but they all seem to be pretty solid.

As far as buying the name goes, there is some advantage to that. You'll pay more for something that says Francotte or Lebeau-Courally or Le Forgeron, but you know that you have not only a quality gun, but that it also came from a first class maker. And if you sell or trade it, that name will be worth something. You can look at a no-name Belgian gun, and it may indeed be every bit as good as a Francotte or a Lebeau of similar grade. But you also need to pay a lot less because it lacks what Rocketman, in his price estimating scale, calls "brand value". No brand = no brand value. The no namers can be very good buys in terms of "gun for the money", but they have to be--because all you're getting is the gun. And the fact is, they'll be worth less than a Brit gun of similar grade and condition with a name on it--even if the gun was in fact "made in the trade" (otherwise a guild gun) by outworkers in Birmingham, and the name only belongs to the company that sold it.

Larry.....You speaking from hands on experience or just off the top of your head ?

There's just something about that Belgium's lines that just doesn't look right, maybe how thick that wrist is in relation to the rest of the gun. I don�t know but that�s a hefty price tag for a gun that may or may not handle well in the field.


What are you looking to do with this gun, Greg?

jOe, As a collector of a few hi-grade investment quality guns, I agree with Larry's evaluation of this issue. What's your opinion?