doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gun weight and the 3" 20 gauge magnum.

That is hardly the normal Jack-I would be interested in seeing the level of proof on that gun. A few years past, a friend ordered a new Arrietta 20 and specified 20 magnum. Big mistake. The gun he got was not the trim little ballerina he had handled at the dealer, but, a hulking 12 gauge in a 20 suit. It was proofed for 20 magnum, and I would say the Arrietta people did their job well on the gun. It was exactly as it should have been.

I own a 5lb, 13oz 20 gauge. Even if it was so proofed, it would never see 3" ammunition.
Best,
Ted

Ted: Here's what the proof certificate for my Bernie says:
CERTIFICATO CUMULATIVO N. PRESSIONE DI COLLAUDO: Kg. cm3 1200. Camere 76
I think that's 1200 bars and 3" chambers - maybe you can do the math. Personally, I have no use for magnum loads, only shoot 2-3/4" shells and never push more than one ounce of shot at a time. But at 5lb. 14oz. this neat little 20ga. "production line" SxS, chambered and proofed for 3" magnum loads, could hardly be described as "meaty."

Jack, please read the last sentence of that quote of mine you chose. Did you notice the word "TYPICALLY" in there. As Ted tried to explain, your Bernadelli isn't meaty but it's hardly typical either.

Incidentally, this maker is known for some very nice lightweight doubles. The 12 ga grouse/wc gun I mentioned above is a Bernadelli and just a tad over 6 lbs; in the field I usually have 7/8 oz in the right bbl and 1.0 oz in the left.

Also, if you did decide to give that little twenty a steady and copious diet of 3" magnums, which do you think would give out first: your shoulder or the stock?

granby: It was the "by necessity" claim I wanted, by all means, to correct.

But we are certainly in agreement (on Winchester 21 and 23, et al.) that many 20ga. SxS guns built for 3" mags are a bit chunky and lacking in aesthetics. Vincenzo Bernardelli is one who did it well.

If I had to shoot a 'steady and copious' diet of 20ga. 3" mags, I wouldn't do it with a solid breech gun, period. My grandson's 20ga. Franchi semiauto does a far better job of sucking up magnum recoil, and, at a flat 6 lbs., is an easy carry in the field.

In the early 60's, I purchased a new 20Ga 6lb lightning grade Belgium Browning with 3" chambers. All of the scribes of the day praised the chamber length, gun configuration, and super quick handling. I purchased one box only of the 3" - 1 1/4oz Roman candles - this cured me. My shoulder eventually returned to the normal color.

I didn't even know if any of my current 20's had 3" chambers. Looks like the Beretta 391 Sporting Technys Gold has a 3" chamber as well as the Superposed 2bbl set. But I wouldn't shoot 3" mags in the Super and IF I wanted to shoot 3" mags, I'd take that 391 Sporting and put the factory 1/2 lb dynamic recoil reducer back in and put the 1/4lb gel recoil pad back on, bringing it back up to 6lbs 14oz. I doubt I'd have any trouble with the recoil once that was done on that gun. Standard Wallyworld 7/8oz loads feel like a 410 with all that stuff.

The important question is "Where is that gun today?" -Dick

Maybe it's the excitement and good fit of the gun. I don't remember any untoward recoil from 3" shells. I can't imagine firing enough shells---what, six or eight of a morning in the blind?---to cause any pain. A guess is my 26" SKB is 6 1/2 pounds. (Chuck reminded me a while back that o/u also makes a difference).

granby,

I'm compiling double dimensions for my web page. What is the width at the bosses of your Thomas Bland, firing pin spacing, height at the breach, overall height from the bottom of the reciever to the top of the breech? What is the length from the breach to the hing? I'm sorry I'm completely ignorant of the Bland, is it a side lock or box? What is the height of the action through the center of the breech?
thanks,
Mike

Mike's Model 21 Web Page

Mike, wish I could provide those dimensions on the Bland but I don't own it. As a matter of fact, I never did, which is why I wasn't able to recall the exact barrel length. I found the gun in a now defunct shop, New England Arms in Kittery Pt in southern Maine. I rangled with the manager of the shop for nearly three weeks and actually went back two more times. Unfortunately he wouldn't budge and wasn't interested in trading.

The gun in question was a boxlock ejector, st grip/splinter and, as I already mentioned, very light in both build and weight. Thomas Bland was a maker originally in Birmingham around 1840 but moved to London later on. They made both boxlocks and sidelocks and became famous for their "fowling" (as in waterfowling) pieces, so many of their guns were twelves. Or at least that's what I found most often in subsequent searches. I've been looking for another suitable twenty by this maker since then--and, naturally, at a bargain basement price. T. Bland is currently owned by Woodcock Hill, Inc located somewhere in Pennsylvania. Their website includes a history of the company; a google search of the maker name will bring you there and will also lead you to a number of guns currently/recently on the market.

Granby