doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gun weight and the 3" 20 gauge magnum.

I have hunted with 12 gauge guns of all types and weights for almost 50 years now. Last year, due to an accident and remaining shoulder injury, I shot a Beretta A303 20 in SD and NM for pheasant, wild and pen raised. I enjoyed the light weight as well as the practically non-existent recoil with 2.75's and 3's. The pheasant didn't seem to notice the difference in loads, unless it was for the last micro second before their lights went out! I was using IC all the time. If I had a pattern problem, well, like I said, the birds didn't know it. I have, during my 57th year of hanging around, finally "discovered" the 20, and I think it is here to stay!!

I had a BSS 20g that had 3" chambers. The gun was near 7lbs. F/M chokes. I bought the gun as new from a friend at the range. I shot many straights in skeet with that gun with the F/M chokes. I won a buckle shoot with it in sporting also. Although I never shot a 3" shell thru it, I can see why a guy might want a 20g gun that's heavier than the featherweight 12g guns. First I paid $1100 for it. Second it fit. Just because a particular gun/gauge is heavier than someone's view of "ideal", doesn't mean it isn't a good gun or a good selection all things considered.

I don't think I've ever touched off a 3" 20g and no more than a few boxes of 12g 3" and those were given to me in the field when someone couldn't stand the recoil and I was much younger. But lately, I've shot a few boxes of 3" 410 to great success. I suppose that shell isn't perfect either. But my game bag got filled and I had a smile.

ShotgunJones, I really don't think it's a matter of double talk on my part but rather semi-literacy on yours.

Please read the last paragraph of my last post once again.

Now let's try to parse the comment in question which is the first sentence of that paragraph.

The first part says I've owned "many" 3" 20 gauge guns, the first one being the Mossberg 500, so I'm familiar with the cartridge and it's capabilities. Fact is that early on I touched off hundreds of 3" twenties before deciding they didn't perform as well as a comparable twelve.

And then the second part of that sentence says "including several SKB SxS's and O/U's that never saw a 3 incher." You see, my friend, it is the "several" SKB doubles that never saw a 3 incher. Had I wanted to indicate that all the guns mentioned in that sentence never saw a 3" shell, I would have placed a comma after the word "O/U's".

Most people evidently recognized my meaning there, but you obviously didn't. So, before you go around accusing people of double talk (and, for reasons of your own, impuning all gun writers in the process!!!), my suggestion is that you get hold of a book on basic English grammar and devote some time to reading it.

As for the price of 3" 20 ga shells vs COMPARABLE 2.75" 12 ga ones, the Winchester Ammunition website lists MSRPs for shotshells.
Win Supreme Shotshells:
3" twenty ga, 1.25 oz = $28.81/bx
2.75" twelve ga, 1,25 oz = $21.65/bx

Their SuperPheasant loads are actually the same price but the 12 ga shells have an extra 1/8 oz of shot so they're definitely NOT comparable.

Gunflint Charlie, you have a valid point there. There aren't many entry level 12 ga guns in the less than 7 lb range. But, as I said in the post, I'm not a kid and have bought and sold a quite a few guns over the years and managed to work my way up to some "mid-level" guns. And by all means, don't forget that I started out with a Mossberg 500 and a Savage Fox double--those were my entry level guns.

Also, if any of you 870 fans got the notion that I was demeaning pump guns and, in particular, the Rem 870, all I can say is that you're preaching to the choir. I am a very big fan of pumps in general and the 870 in particular. I own two 870's right now--a 12 ga SP and a 12 ga TC Trap, and have owned at least eight more over the years. They're one of the best guns ever produced in the US and I'll take one over any semi-auto anytime.

Granby

Bob Brister's book "Shotguns, the art and Science" pans the 20 Ga. 3" shell. His patterns that he shot on a moving billboard (a great technique in my opinion) show very bad stringing

So, has it been conclusively figured out whether or not stringing, in the lengths seen, is a highly detrimental thing?

Here is my take on 20g guns.

First, time has taken it's toll for sure. Even an Ithaca 37 20g is taller through the barrel/magazine than a Remington 17 by almost 3/16s. The lines of each gun next to each other are obviously different. As well compare a 2 1/2 1920 Fox to a BSS!

Second, different bores handle shot differently(Duh!) A Ruger Red Label with a 635 bore will pattern very nicely with most quality 3" shells and has enough heft to make a nice duck gun. Especially with modern non-tox.

Remingtons and others that hover around 620s shoot the baby mags quite well. I've taken 2 longbeards with the 1 1/8 oz 20g with hard 6s. These can be poison on late season pheasants as well.

Older guns like my Remington 17s and old SxSs really seem to prefer 7/8s. I load #7s specifically for these guns and they are the bomb for 90% of the shooting I do, to include a pile of pheasants.

I don't think it's fair to say a 20 is a 20 is a 20. They've changed allot over the years and I suppose if you want a truely trim gun then you need to look to the 1930s and back. I have to admit though that the Beretta O/Us I've handled are pretty nice!

Others better than me at math have posted calculations using velocity of shot, shot string length, and velocity of target. They convinced me that length of shot string isn't worth worrying about.

It's the birds that the shotgun pundits have to convince and I think the 20 gauge 3" or less have done that very well!-Dick

I'm not sure I see the point of comparing say a 1 1/8 oz load in a 20g vs a 1 1/8 oz load in a 12g. I think most will agree that the 12g has the advantage to achieve a better pattern, all other things being equal.

However, what I see as the reason to go to a heavier load in a small bore is to use that particular gun the shooter likes, and improve the chances of a kill over the lessor load. If a heavier load does that, what else is there to debate? There are undoubtedly countless reasons why a hunter might want to shoot the smaller bore gun that range from; it fits and he hits more reliably with it, to he can't afford another gun.

Like the saying goes for rifles, shotguns have to have their shot loads put on target first.

So my 5lb. 14oz. Bernardelli 20ga., chambered for 3" shells, is half a pound overweight? By the traditional formula (gun weight = 96 x shot weight), it's a couple of ounces light for the 1oz. loads I shoot for pheasant, and just a tad over for the 7/8oz. loads I use for grouse and woodcock. Hardly "meaty," granby.