doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W & C Scott & Son Quintuple Bolt Hammer gun

I wouldn't take it personal at all. If I wanted to put in a bid, I'd have to work with the same photos.

jOe might not be the most diplomatic person, But I think he does know his Scotts...

I wouldn't throw it out nor I would I go out and buy yer ol'lady a new car thinking you've hit the jack pot with it either.

I've owned my share of W&C Scott's and looked at many more....fact is they are the only English guns that get a second glance from me.

I've owned/shot and hunted with one Vintage Purdey hammer gun but I think my Premier Grade Scott hammer gun is a better built gun.

I take nothing personal that is written on this or any forum. I do realize my pictures lack certain detail and clarity and for this I apologize.

Myself I think you should keep the gun...have it restored and sell those American clunkers you mentioned.

OK, forget the auction, price (which I personally have not discussed,) my pictures, and condition which is really nicer than my pictures represent and certainly very nice for an approx. 125 year old unrestored shotgun.

Find me another Scott Quintuple bolt that is for sale, sold or is simply in a collection somewhere. Perhaps there are several. I keep hearing about a DGJ artical but have not had reference to the issue as of yet. Is this a pilot model of some sort? Experimental? How many were produced? What grade is it? Year of production? Who was the designer? Any connection to Purdey in its design or developement? I'm here to learn about this particular model shotgun.

There are those of you out there that know me from shows, shooting events and dealings and know that I am not a smoke blower. I am just trying to figure this one out.

Oh, almost forget, how did Joe know my "ol lady" needed a new Lexus?

This one is an H. Holland, (before H&H). It was almost certainly made by Scott. It's a higher grade than your's with a "premium" name. It sold for $11,000 3 years ago. Some things about your's bother me. The mentioned forearm latch and the quality difference between the scroll engraving on the top lever and the locks. Looks like two different engravers did it.

Mike's pictures were worth a thousand words.

What I see on Mike's gun is "best gun" features throughout. What I see on the gun currently being discusses are several examples of good-to-best features but the totality of the gun is inconsistent.

1. The forend latch and its engraving is best. It is identical to that used on best "Scott Premier" grade guns.

2. The long tang and horn grip cap are also compatible with a "best gun".

3. The animal engraving is crude by comparison to other Scotts I've seen of even lower grade guns. I even question whether they might have been added as afterthoughts?

4. The scroll engraving on the subject gun is good-to-premium, but does not match the best grade example Mike provided.

I do not know the novelty value of the lock design so that is a wildcard in assigning value. I think JoE is typically pessimistic on value. I think he prices things as the price he would pay for the gun, not the price the full market will bear for any firearm.

I guess I'd say that since it isn't in great shape, the question would be "what is a thoughtfully and conservatively restored example of this gun worth?". I think your gun in restored condition would be in $3500-$5250 value range.

The next question would be, "what will it take to get the gun to a position of "thoughtfully and conservatively restored condition?".

1. $400 receiver clean up, remove rust that matches the barrel browning.
2. Up to $250 of internal barrel work depending on pits, etc.
3. $100 to repair buggered screws
4. $150 to blue or black the appropriate pins, screws and furniture.
5. Gentle stock conditioning that is modest and conservative = $150.
6. Other unknowns? Springs? Off face? Triggers?

I see at least $1050 of repair/restore work, plus perhaps $150 in shipping and a year's time to project manage this work. So rough estimate is $1200 to put into this gun.

Future Value - Restoration Investment = X (Current Value)

$5250 (FV) - $1200 (RI) = $4050 (Current Value) on the High End.
$3500 (FV) - $1200 (RI) = $2300 (Current Value) on the Low End.

Just my guesstimate. It is certainly a conversation piece!

[quote=Rookhawk]

....3. The animal engraving is crude by comparison to other Scotts I've seen of even lower grade guns. I even question whether they might have been added as afterthoughts?.../quote]

Purely for discussion, this just doesn't look right. I believe after $1200 of careful, conservative restoration the side plates might still not be right. It's probably just me, but the centers of the side plates may have been 'polished and spruced up'. I think the original price goes down some, but I'd guess thoughtful restoration cost might go way up from the ballpark.

I have added some more detailed pictures of the engraving to the auction. Hopefully these help some. I am most sure the forend & iron are original to the gun. The scroll engraving certainly looks to have been done by the same hand and the lines per inch is the same on the forend and grip. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=271080231

Some may prefer a restored gun with new case color, fresh rust blued barrels and perfectly sharp recut checkering. If the gun were a basket case perhaps I would consider it, but it is tight on face and hinge, has shiney bores with some very light patches here and there and is mechanically just fine, certainly good enough to take hunting. The few buggered screws really don't bother me enough to remove the originality and history from the shotgun.

A wise German handgun collector friend once told me that "if an old gun shows now patina, its not original" I personally prefer originality if at all possible over a dolled up restoration no matter how well done, but I know this is for another discussion...