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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106 |
Gorgeous gun. From the photos, however--and maybe it's camera angle--it looks like that gun would have at least 3" drop at heel.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 266 |
Unfortunately, the 1890 US census was virtually destroyed in a Washington fire, with only about 1% of the census available. However, the 1880 US census shows an unmarried John Prechtel, born in 1862, listed as a blacksmith and living in Cleveland OH. Both parents listed as being from Prussia (this fits with the info provided by M. Petrov.) So, the scenario goes as follows: John Prechtel, 18-year-old bachelor blacksmith, decides that there may be more interesting forms of metalwork than banging out iron utensils or repairing wagon suspensions, and vows to give gunmaking a try. Sometime after 1880, but before 1900, young Mr. Prechtel arranges to apprentice with the well-known Daniel Myron Lefever of Syracuse NY (possibly through the auspices of other German immigrants?) After spending some indeterminent amount of time under Mr. Lefever's guidance, J. Prechtel is allowed to complete a firearm from "scratch" or nearly so, to demonstrate his proficiency in the craft and to become a Journeyman in Good Standing. Thereafter Prechtel, gun in hand, returns to Cleveland and sets up shop on his own. It would be great to find some sort of Syracuse documentation for Prechtel, although I think the (mispelled) time board is pretty good evidence. Hats off to Michael Petrov for the detective work! [I posted this in response to a similar thread over at http://lefeverforum.informe.com that utilized MP's research as found in this thread]
Last edited by Larry Leake; 04/02/07 11:31 AM.
Best Regards, Larry
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
Larry I think that this could be easily worked out with copies of the Syracuse, NY city directories for the year(s) in question. You can get them from your local LDS research center for about the price of the postage (that’s how it works in Alaska). With all the folks interested in Lefever guns I’m surprised that all the employees have not been identified. While you’re looking see if you can find A.P. Kessel a stockmaker who worked for William Schaefer in Boston and whose name has been reported found under the pistol grip cap of Lefevers.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
“ If A. O. Zischang could build himself a gun while working for Lefever and then go on to bigger and (presumably) better things in the gunmaking biz, then why not J.A. Prechtel?”
Please keep in mind that I have only see pictures of the Zischang marked shotgun and have not handled it. I would be very surprised to learn that Zischang built this shotgun. I would (no disrespect to LeFever owners) expect something from his hands to, well, shine.
If the present owner of the Zischang-Lefever would post some pictures of the gun I think it would be interesting to all.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Posts: 266
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 266 |
MP, a quick scan of "J", "J.A.", "John" or "John A" Prechtel at LDS website shows no hits for Syracuse NY between 1880-1900. However, don't the city directories usually only list head of households and the inhabitants thereof? Would a bachelor apprentice be listed in the directories (assuming that is what he was?) He could have been a border in town or even living with an employee of LAC. Would that have made it into the directory?
Last edited by Larry Leake; 04/02/07 01:24 PM.
Best Regards, Larry
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
Don't know you need to look, I’ve never looked at a Syracuse, NY directory however they normally list people and businesses. Look at “Plank”. http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/winfield/City1880/1880-036.jpghttp://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/winfield/City1880/1880-026.jpgIn this directory even the servants are listed. If this were my project I would look at the Cleveland directories find out when Prechtel arrived as a gunsmith then go to the old newspaper files and see if there is a story about his new business with his background history. Next would be to find his obituary, that should also list a Lefever connection if there was one. Joseph Singer’s does. Correct obit below,
Last edited by Michael Petrov; 04/02/07 03:32 PM.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Ok, if he 38 in 1900, he was born in 1862. In 1880, he was 18. http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/C...amp;frompage=99John PRECHTEL Male Other Information: Birth Year <1862> Birthplace OH Age 18 Occupation Blacksmith Marital Status S <Single> Race W <White> Head of Household Michael PRECHTEL Relation Son Father's Birthplace PRUS Mother's Birthplace PRUS Source Information: Census Place Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio Family History Library Film 1255007 NA Film Number T9-1007 Page Number 161A His father: Michael PRECHTEL Male Other Information: Birth Year <1831> Birthplace PRUS Age 49 Occupation Laborer Marital Status M <Married> Race W <White> Head of Household Michael PRECHTEL Relation Self Father's Birthplace PRUS Mother's Birthplace PRUS Source Information: Census Place Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio Family History Library Film 1255007 NA Film Number T9-1007 Page Number 161A Cemetery records for Cleveland http://dxsrv4.cpl.org/WebZ/QUERY?sessionid=01-3480-1634259571Id#: 0283279 Name: Prechtel, John A. Date: 1928 Source: Cemetery record; Cleveland Necrology File, Reel #065. Notes: Age 65. Monroe Cemetery Cleveland, Ohio. Now the trick is to find him in Syracuse... Pete
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
Pete, Good information,less than a days work and and a lot of information on a man, it seems before yesterday, no one was aware of.
To all, This might be the next step in the trail, from Walter’s obit you can locate living relatives. You need to be very careful of what you say and how you act. I learned this the hard way when I told a seventy year old man his sister was dead, a sister he did not even know he had. Go slow and have the FACTS before contacting family members.
Walter PRECHTEL Birth Date: 12 Jul 1919 Death Date: Oct 1970 Social Security Number: 294-10-7766 State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Ohio Death Residence Localities ZIP Code: 44145 Localities: Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio Westlake, Cuyahoga, Ohio
The owner of the gun lives in Cleveland, the man looking for info lives in Cleveland, the ball is in your court. I’m off the case now. Looking forward to hearing how all this turns out.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
OK, OK one more then I have to go ;-) Cleveland city directory for 1887-88
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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