doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need help with older Francotte

I hear him, but I have to say that there are some styling cues that make me think post war.

For Sale item posted.

[img]http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Y...C/of=50,327,443[/img]

http://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos2.htm

I look at the gun as compatible with Francotte "bottom grade" serial number range for the estimated date of manufacture. Sure looks like a Francotte, although I can't remember seeing a picture that identifies the extension rib too clearly. Is it a Greener crossbolt/extension or something else? We would also like to see a good picture of the single trigger. If it is a retrofit Miller or something similar it may add to the value. Another value consideration is "Would you like to own David Letterman's bird gun?"

I have to admit my ignorance (again). What is the 'extension rib'? The rib that runs along the top of the barrel terminates at the end of the barrel and does not extend beyond the chambers. Do you need to see a photo of that? I'll take the trigger picture, too, and post both of them as soon as you describe which parts you want to see (side, angled from bottom, barrels mounted on the action from the top?) I won't attempt to take the wood off the action to show the trigger mechanism - I don't have the skills or tools not to bugger up the screws.
I'm not sure what the reference is to David Letterman. Is there an inside joke here somewhere?

This gun appears to have a hidden third bite. That translates into a "lump" between the barrels that mates into a slot in the action face and the "lump" is locked down by a sliding bolt. The "hidden" references that the slot and lump are not visible when the gun is closed. "Third bite" refers to the "lump" as "third" after the two bites in the main, underbarrel lump. I don't recall the use of hidden third bites on BL of turn of the century vintage.

Miller single selective triggers usually have a unique three position safety selector (right-up, safe-middle, and left-down). A photo of the trigger and safety selector should clear this up.

The "DL" monogram clearly refers to former ownership by David Letterman - no question on that one (joke).

Bruce,
See the following website for some guidance (and in some cases pictures) regarding words and terms used in this email string.

http://www.hallowellco.com/abbrevia.htm#half

I agree with Rocketman that a hidden 3rd bite would be more typical of a newer gun, rather than something 100 years old. I've seen older Francottes with Greeners (both standard and concealed) and doll's head extensions, and even owned one that had both a doll's head and a hidden Greener. If it has the hidden 3rd bite, I'd toss in my vote with those who say the entire gun is from the post-1924 period, as the proofs on the barrels indicate.

Thank you for the link to gun terminology. I appreciate it.

I took pictures of the open action from the side to show the locking mechanism, and then the opening where the locking lever swings across the top when activated by the lever.

I also imaged the safety. The trigger shows well in the open action image. The safety is clearly original to the gun and has no lateral movement. The trigger is not hinged and also has no lateral movement.

I was also asked about the weight. It measures 5 pounds and 14 ounces on an accurate scale.

Note to web master. Please let me know if these are too big. I am aware of the FAQ about image size and am editing the images to show only the necessary detail to respond to the questions, but can reduce image dimensions if you wish.

Bruce,

You posted a small picture of the action flat markings. There is a mark above the *AH. Can you provide a clearer picture of that mark? It does not seem to conform to a proof house mark. I am guessing it may be a maker's mark.

On the action flat, there is that mark, then *AH which is the controller's mark pre-1924, the perron which indicates inspection of the breech, the lion over the PV which indicates nitro proof in use 1898-1968.

On the barrel flats left side top down. Barrel weight, 1.169 Kg (this was used to verify that tampering has not been done since the barrels passed proof) 2.57 lbs. This started in 1892, after 1924 fractional weights (eg 1.169.1) were no longer used. X or alpha , date stamp 1945 or 1948. * over U, controller Hubert Charlier, employed 1923-1953. Lion over PV, nitro proof, 1898-1968. Crown over ELG with star at bottom, acceptance of proof at Liège, 1893-1968. The last mark is the Gauge and Chamber length, 1924-current.

So there is no doubt in my mind, based on the proof marks the barrels have a latter date than the action. The original barrels were either damaged, liberated or simply lost after the war.

Pete