doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need help with older Francotte

Good afternoon,

Some of you shared your expert knowledge with me almost 2 years ago concerning a special-order 20ga Francotte SxS two-barrel set in a trunk case that had belonged to my father. That expertise helped my brother decide to keep the gun for the grandchildren since it is essentially NIB and has the family initials in the engraving.

Since then the family has decided to sell an older Francotte (the serial number places it as a 1895 Medium Grade) that was my father's quail and dove gun. It is a very light 20ga SxS that appears to have been used pretty hard but well cared for. He reportedly bought it in the late 1950's - early 1960's from the Francotte factory/store while in Europe on business, and they modified it to fit him by adding an extension to the stock and fitting a hard rubber pad. They may have modified the chokes at that time, although that fact is a little less clear.

I would appreciate any help writing a good description of the gun and establishing a reasonable value in order to advertise it. I can post a few pictures and a description of it here if that would be appropriate. If not I would be able to email pictures and the description privately.

This is not an offer to sell. When I do that I will move the item to the classifieds section and carefully follow those rules.

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to offer.

Bruce,
I am glad you decided to keep your 2 barrel set for posterity. As regards the 20 gauge Francotte....I would seek Larry Brown's advice. Finally, what was your source for dates of production by serial number? I ask because I have an old Francotte sixteen gauge with 2 9/16 inch chambers that I would like to date. Let me know when you price the Francotte 20 ga.....I may be interested. Good luck with yours, they are splendid field guns designed for light loads.
Tom Regal

Hi Tom,
Gunshop.com had a list of serial numbers for high grade shotguns called "High Grade Shotgun Dates of Production". I have it downloaded, but it may still be at that URL. At the time of my last query a gentleman with the email of "darylh@xx.xx" helped me, but that email no longer works. I'll look for Mr. Brown; thanks for the tip.
Bruce

Galazan Catalog No. 9 has a listing for high grade guns by serial number which includes Francottes.

Tom McDevitt

Bruce, I'll be glad to help all I can, but there are certainly other folks here who are at least as knowledgeable as I am about Francottes. If you can post photos, we can probably help you figure out the grade and how to describe the gun's condition. And as indicated above, there may be some potential buyers here. This site's "for sale" board is a good place to advertise doubles.

Thank you for your generous offer to help me out.

Here's what I think I have:

"Francotte SxS 20ga Boxlock, good wood, 50%+ engraving coverage. Overall 80%+."
"Blued action; 27 1/2" barrels, current choking ic/m, barrels moderately pitted near muzzle, but pattern well; single trigger; half pistol grip stock, 15 1/4" LOP, 2 3/4" drop, factory-added stock extension and hard rubber pad, tiny registration cartouche on stock reportedly from WWII occupation; splinter forearm with gold initials. Matching numbers, 253xx Seriel # may place it as 1895/6 Medium Grade gun."

Bruce it is interesting that the proofs on the barrel flats are in accordance with the rules of 1924 and has what appears to be a proof date code of 1945 (the small case x on both flats. It could be that a new set of barrels were made for it. We need to see the proof marks on the action flats to be sure of its age. I cannot see what the gauge and chamber length is (the mark at the rear of the flats on both sides. I will try to sharpen the image to see if I can make it out. Jim

Hi Jim,
I don't know what the 'action flat' is, but I can take a picture from a different angle, under different lighting, or blow up a certain part of these pictures if that would help. I have bigger versions of these pictures, but am following the FAQ which specified this size. Let me guess if its this picture, which I've enhanced as much as I can without re-shooting the picture:

The controller of Proof was Hubert Charlier (* over U), who worked in that position from 1923 to 1953. The date code could a small x (1945)or a lower case alpha(1948), hard to tell. I see nothing on the barrel flats to indicate an earlier dating.

Does the water table show different markings?

Pete

Bruce the action flats or water table is the flat part of the action that the barrels fit against. it will have markings similar to the barrel flats. I downloaded your picture sharpened it and enlarged it the chambers appear to be 70mm or 2 3/4, I can't make out the gauge marking.

Jim