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Forums10
Topics38,498
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Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43 |
Last edited by Cartod; 11/01/10 03:08 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,565 Likes: 99
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,565 Likes: 99 |
Cartod,
I'm thinking you've totally F'd with the head of the 21 you put in that Airways case and should send it to me immediately for therapy.
Dr.Cash
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Someone please stick me in a six foot deep hole and cover me with dirt if I ever get tired of seeing a Model 21!!!
Thanks Cartod!!!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 299
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 299 |
I'm no 21 expert but I have owned a hand full of them over the years. I do not want to stick my nose into the politics of this thread. I just would like to post some pics of the rarest one I have now. I've posted this before...sorry. It's not fancy in the wood dept.but hard to find and original. 1954, 20ga. 28". VR,3" choked F/F. No recoil pad.   
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 121 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 121 Likes: 4 |
It's not original, rare, the wood is not "Winchester" wood, or special in any way. It is, however, mine. The stock on the gun was not original when i got it, was a lot too short, and it had the biggest, ugliest, bt fore end you ever saw. In addition, the checkering did not match.   I could not decide if I wanted bt or splinter fore end, so I got both. I like the splinter. 
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,037 Likes: 48
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,037 Likes: 48 |
Part of the success story of the 21 is the fact that it's an easy SxS gun to shoot well.
I'm not an Olympic class shooter by any means, but I do have a fair amount of experience now and I find that the extra heft of a 21 and the overall fine dynamics make it an excellent gun when the shooting starts. It might not be the lightest or the prettiest, or even the best made. It is, however, a shooting son of a [censored].
Some guns have it, and some don't. The best SxS from a pure shooting enjoyment standpoint I've ever had the chance to play with was a 21 from CSMC in 20ga with 30" barrels and a Hession style front end. OMG! The owner about had a fight to get it back.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 711
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 711 |
What the heck. This is my kind of thread. Here are most of mine. From the top, 32in VR 12ga Trap, 30in 12 ga, 28 in 16ga, 28in 20ga. Top gun is supposedly one if not the largest 21's ever made. JW 
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
2-Piper:
"Personally I think the Purdey double bolt is a superior design."
Care to elaborate? The three guns I have come across with round underbolts are the Mod21, Horsley and a Belgian Darry. The underbolts were in the 9mm diameter range, offering 60 square mm against shear forces. The Purdey underbolt offers slightly less cross sectional area in most English style guns.
Additionally the round bolt seems easier to drill, fit and finish at the manufacturing and repair phases. To the round underbolts you can add the Ithaca Flues & at least some Crescent Arms guns, my American Gun Co hammergun has one. All single bolts of which I am familar, whether round or flat, bolt into the bbl notch at the extreme end. There must of necessity be clearence enough for the bolt to run freely, thus the actual load bearing area of the bolt to the frame is a minute point of contact. With the double bolt on the other hand the lug penertrates the bolt. The bolt thus engages the frame evenly on all four sides of the lug, It don't need near as much metal to carry an equal (or greater) load. In addition on the Purdey bolt, as well as most of its copies, the forward face of the rear lug is cut on a radius swung from the center of the hinge. Frame cross section is mated to this radius with just minimum clearence to open & close. There is thus a load bearing area here to resist the axial thrust of firing much greater than that of the hinge pin. The entire back thrust of the 21 is carried by the hinge pin alone. Again winchester just depended upon good Metallurgy to make up for what others of necesity, when basically all they had to work with was mild steel, took care of by design.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
[quote=Cartod]
Be happy to discuss all those attributes you feel were "Improved" in the M21. The single selective trigger The strength/reliability/metallurgy/safety The fore end design The Chokes The ease of ability I presume you mean here the ease of fitting another set of bbls. barrels SST; being a two trigger man I will concede this one for the simple reason I don't really know if thats true or not. I learned a long time ago that two trigger 21s, while available, don't abound. Don't really know what's so great about the forend, I despise one with a spring putting pressure on the hook/pin joint thus creating friction all the time the bbls are being opened or closed. Never had any problems with the chokes on my guns, though I do admit to being a little lazy when it comes to pattern counting. Do you have extensive pattern testing to elaborate on or are you just quoting others on this, perhaps WW advertizing. By bbl interchangibility I presume you are speaking of the ability to fit a set from another gun. This is more a manner of mode of manufacture than design itself. With mass production in mind they were made to gage, rather than individully fit. Same can be said of a Stevens 94 single bbl. Whether this is a plus or minus depends upon ones outlook.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43 |
Hammerback, that one is outstanding! A 3" with a VR, Wow! Thanks!
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