doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Case Colors Circa 1936

Friends:

Oscar's conclusions, which were written up here(maybe Dave has them archived somewhere? ) left no doubt. Having suffered two computer crashes since those discussions, (circa 2000?) I dont have copies. Nonetheless, Dr. Gaddy's conclusions were not equivocal, Oscar said : " NO, sunlight did NOT fade case colors."

As others have pointed out, the colors are produced by a micro-thin oxide layer. Oxide is a polite term for " rust" in this case. An illustration Oscar used sticks in my mind : " If sunlight fades case colors, then sunlight should make a rusted Chevy engine block 'unrust'.

Abrasion wears the case colors off the action - the oxides are not very tightly bound to the metal surface. Even minimal handling can cause wear. The reason that the fore end iron remains with intact case color is that it is not touched. Sunlight has no effect on rust.

The reason that so many field grade Fluzies and similar market guns are encountered " shiny" or appearing to be "nickled" is that in the 50's and 60's, polishing the damaged case colors was a cheap and easy way for the hobby-ist to spiff up granddad's old gun. Shiny receiver guns are frequently found with hot-blued barrels, or at least reworked barrels; another evidence of a poorly thought out refurb.

Regards

GKT

What about the guns that show no case colors, were all Ithaca's case colored or were some done with no case colors?

The doubles were case hardened with the resulting colors.

I've noticed that very few L. C. Smith Ideal grades have strong case colors, even on guns in otherwise pristine condition. It's like there's something about those engraved oak leaves that causes the colors to slide off. I saw one Ideal with brilliant colors but when I commented on them, the owner told me it had been re-cased.

On the other hand, I see a lot of Hunter Arms cheaper boxlock Hunter Fultons with very strong case colors, often even on guns in well used condition. But I think the Fultons were cyanide case colored.

Gentelmen,

I am a new member and this is the the closest thread to the topic I could find.

The information I am looking for is the date of manufacture as well as any other info I could get conserning My 5e sbt serial #306 889 T. It also says on the water board pat applied for with what looks to be a PAID stamped over that. from what I have been able to find it looks like maybe between 1917 and 1920. I would like to find out more,any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Kevin

I'm willing to bet a crisp Ben Franklin that you won't find that quotation anywhere in print. I suspect you may belong to a coterie of posters on this forum who allude to non-existant published references; I suppose in an attempt to bolster their credibility. It has the opposite effect.

Mike I followed Dr. Gaddy's writing on this board religiously until his death. If someone who doubts Dr. Gaddy's work were to take the time to go back through the archives they will find his quote.

I know I read it and that is enough for me.

I don't remember his exact words, but that certainly was the gist of what Dr. Gaddy stated.

The reversal of the rusty engine point implies that the uncorroded condition is the most stable. Probably not. All compounds slowly seek the state of lowest energy.
The entire basis of the photovoltaic industry is thin film oxides, their production, and their life cycle management. Billions of dollars worldwide are being invested into exactly what is being talked about here. For parallel reasons, energy absorption, light reflectivity, and lifespan when exposed to sunlight.
Because it is folly to argue with saints and ghosts, I would refer back to my earlier remark, that time is relative, and that there are molecular structures formed in the fire that are unstable. Their "desire" is to become something else that is more energy stable. Plenty of quality papers being written these days about trying to make photocells last. Good surface chemistry and group theory stuff (for those inclined).
In the interest of common ground, I would also point out that the same standards of uv stability necessary for an intergalactic mission don't have to be applied to decorative differential corrosion in firearms. In fact, our interest in case colors pre-dates interplanetary travel by a century. So,in my polite opinion, the stability of colour is about relative stability, not absolute stability. And that is good enough for me.
And for the purposes of collecting, enjoying, and using firearms, relative stability is more than adequate. No harm comes from less exposure to sunlight, less rubbing, or obsessively maintaining a thin film of anti-oxidant protection over case hardened metals.
I am always reminded that if we stand around long enough, we are all slowly becoming dust.

Mike:

I have participated in this forum for quite some time.

I have had folks vigorously disagree with me on occasion. I am used to that; discourse and disagreement are good.

You are the first to call me a liar.

I hope in the interest of our mutual hobby that if you have a disagreement with me you can be civil about it.

Regards

GKT