doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How relivent are the dimensions from a gun fitting

How many of you have had a fitting done, and then tried to use those numbers to order from another maker, or to buy a gun already made? In my limited expierience with different guns, even from the same maker, length of pull is relavent as is the drop at heel, but it seems the cross sectional profile of the comb makes cast and drop at face very imprecise at best. Larry Brown has been kind enough to let me handle and shoot quite a few different guns . Some I can shoot well some , all of them he shoots well just some better than others, and some we both shoot well. So which is more important, fitting dimensions or actually handling the gun and spending the cost of the fitting on practise?

I had a fitting done several years ago, then had one gun restocked and a few other altered for LOP. I have also ruled out buying guns that didn't come close to my dimensions. It has worked out great for me but I know others don't put much credence in the practice.

JMO, but drop at the face, or comb, is far more important than DAH.That's where your face(and eye is) Pitch is of near zero importance, except to distrubute recoil over the maximum area of your shoulder pocket(where the butt SHOULD be). Very little, if anything, to do with elevation of POI, in spite of often parroted old wives's tales, to the contrary by parrot-like "gun writers" who have never tried anything for themselves, other than plagiarism.

One more thing. If you haven't yet developed a consistent and proper gun mount, fitting is also going to be a waste of money. Like getting a suit tailored while you're gaining, losing weight or drastically changing your everyday posture.

I haven't had a formal fitting, but I do believe it's worth it to someone unsure of his gun fit. While I'll acknowledge that the stock comb profile (width, radius, etc.) has an effect that translates to effective changes in cast, knowing your dimensions for fit still gets you so close, even with this variable, that there is a big benefit compared to not having a clue. Admittedly, the very experienced shooter, that has shot many different guns with many different dimensions, may not benefit much from a fitting.

Many years ago I had a formal fitting with try-gun done. So far it has worked well in custom orders except for Bruchet/Darne where you also suppply body measurements and Bruchet determines how to fit the stock. Since my measurements are very close to what is normally supplied on factory guns, I usually have no problems as long as a gun is close. Of course the final proof is in the shooting and if one has a Proof room such as Kolar, you go in and determine if POI is correct. BTW Kolar fitting at the factory consists of a couple of sessions where they eyeball you with the gun in progress and make the stock but it works. My last custom gun from CSMC made to my dimensions, I didn't even bother to pattern or determine POI but just went and hunted with it. Killed birds from the first shot I ever took with it.
I would strongly advise having a fit done by a competant fitter if contemplating a custom(bespoke gun) and if possible having the gun maker actually do the fit. CSMC doesn't do fitting for whatever the reasons but they make the gun to your supplied dimensions very nicely.
I have watched all manner of shotgun shooters with ill fitting shotguns in the 40+ years of bird hunting I have done. They invariably have ill fitting guns which markedly affects thier ability but then there are the few natural shots who can use anything and hit birds. I am not one of those and require all the help I can get!-Dick

I had a fitting done by Griffin & Howe using their try-gun followed by patterning. At the end of the fitting session I had the fitter measure my Merkel 1620 and let me know how far off the gun was from my custom dimensions.

Next, I determined how far off from my needed dimensions the 1620 was by patterning the gun. I then compared the results of the two different measurement methods. The amount of stock adjustment needed to make the 1620 fit as determined by the fitter and by patterning the gun were the same. I sent the gun off to be bent and the gun shoots very well for me.

I then had a CSMC RBL 20ga made to the G&H dimensions. I wasn't sure how well the G&H dimensions would work with the RBL 20ga because the RBL clearly has a thicker butt than the 1620, but I had never heard that custom dimensions determined by a fitter were gun-specific so I went ahead. Shooting the patterning board shows the completed RBL 20ga to shoot 6" to the left at 20 yds. The thicker butt had indeed required at least a new cast-off dimension. In hindsight I thought to myself "well duh."

I now determine gun fit by shooting the patterning board. This is done with each specific gun I regularly shoot. Where the gun actually prints determines how much stock adjustment is needed. This method automatically accounts for any dimensional idosyncrasies (known or otherwise) a particular gun may have. Plus, it is very easy to do. Verifying the gun "shoots where I look" is a great boost to my confidence in the firearm. The G&H measurements go unused in my desk.

The custom fitting by G&H was a worthwhile experience (don't get me started on my experience with their bending service, though) because it caused me to start paying attention to gun fit and gave me a baseline to start working from. IMHO, however, dimensions from a fitting session are gun-dependent, and will almost always require some amount of fine tuning from one specific gun to another. This leads to the problem of paying for the expense of a custom stock when using dimensions from a previous fitting session which will be only "close" rather than "spot on." I guess "close" is better than "not even close," though, and "close" is good enough for someone who's mount is not consistent. Further, everyone has their own idea of what is "good enough." In other words, YMMV.

In light of my experience, so far, I would not pay to have another fitting done - shooting the patterning board is just too easy and is the final arbiter anyway. The only exception would be if the fitting was by a stockmaker making a stock for me, which would be the ideal situation.

JMHO.

--shinbone

When guns were first invented, the shooter had to adapt to what the maker made. Next, it was discovered that certain stock dimensions made for easier shooting. Then it was discovered that a stock made for an individual (bespoke) was easiest to shoot well. Gradually, those who had great social pressure to shoot well gravitated to a single gunmaker who becme expert in fitting that individual. The relationship of shooter and gunmaker got devalued in the development of manufactured guns, length measuring tools and try guns. The American picture of knowing LOP, drops, and, maybe, cast, seriously short changes a number of small variations in stocking which a gunmaker would adjust to the shooter. So, we are better with custom stocking dimensions, but best with a relationship between the shooter and the stocker. Hopefully, a relationship where the gun is shot at pattern plates extensively and the stock fine tuned before it is declared finished.

IMHO, if you are built so that the "standard" gun deminsions are a good fit for you and you have a good, repeatable mount, you can get along just fine w/o a fitted gun.

Unfortunately for me I am not built so that standard fatory guns fit. My shooting success has dramtically improved after getting a fitted, bespoke gun.
My last purchase, an RBL-28 with CSMC standard deminsions, prevented me from even seeing left to right birds. Too much DAC so that my right master eye couldn't see the bird.After getting the stock bent, I can see the targets fine.
Still have to HIT them, though.

Thank you all for your insight. From my limited expiereance it would seem that a pattern plate is the proof in the pudding, and that while numbers can get you close,you have to shoot the gun to remove the " umeasureable" variables. Thanks so much for your input. Mark

Thanks for a wonderful thread. It adds to the learning experience.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, Ne