doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Why "high" birds?

In the mid eighties I was taught to shoot driven birds by my friend Mr Jack Mitchell, who taught at the West London shooting school,Was the Managing director of Coggswell Harrison, and beloved shooting instructor to the people of Cornwall,and the U.S. His advice,which has served me well was " If you know you can hit the bird,don't shoot it! it would not be sporting".I would add " If you know that you can't hit it don't shoot".Understand that paying for a set number of birds if you shoot easy birds, you will get easy birds,and you will soon be done with your days shooting.The challenge is to test yourself,and find the level that tests your skill. It is different for each person.I used to think that open chokes 5-15 thous would suffice.After shooting a couple of extreme drives at " Whitfield " the past 2 years, I have changed my mind. You need to match your equipment to the shooting.Extreme birds 12's, 30 0r 32" barrels, # 4 or 5 shot, full chokes. Why high Birds? I still remember the first high bird that I attempted and killed 25 years ago,and as Jack said if you can remember one bird a trip,It will be a good trip. He was right. sfq

Thanks for the insight. I can understand letting birds go so that you can take a memorable shot. Back to the archangels in vogue today. So someone who may have invested a great deal in a pair of best guns would have to think about reinvesting in tighter choked guns to keep up with the trend? I understand that pairs are rarely used any more and O/U are in vogue for driven nowadays so it may be a matter of changing chokes for the day.

In my recent experience, pairs are still much in use. It really depends on the ferocity of the shoot. For a big shoot (400+), pairs are an advantage, although not an absolute one. I would suggest that, especially on partridge, you'll get a deeal more shooting with a pair than you would with a single gun even with a highly competent stuffer, but you'll still be able to take your full share either way. On a family shoot, it's rare to use a pair and it might be felt you were trying for an unfair advantage.

As for the differences in height between drives, thats why Nigel Teague is doing so well these days. I know Purdeys will make up a gun already Teague choked and even provide velvet-lined holes in the case for them.

Aha! Those terrible interchangeable chokes. The ones all prospective buyers love to hate and owners of guns with them hate to love.

Good to know that pairs are still in use. I just bought a pair which happen to be choked IM all the way around. I am thinking about starting my driven experience with Blixt and Co. out west to get a taste before going overseas. I was thinking of having at least the right barrels opened up to C or IC but may be choke tubes will be the way to go.

I think Scottie in Star Trek summed it up when he used to tell the Captain, 'You can't defy the laws of physics Jim'. It's all down to pattern and penetration and getting the right balance then balancing that with the Shooter's skill level. I pick up with my two Chesapeake bay Retrievers at a lot of English driven shoots and we do try to mark any pricked birds and gather them a quickly as possible. I would rather see them fall dead though. Sir Ralph Payne-Galwey wrote a book in 1913 called High Pheasants in Theory and Practice. He ddi a lot of practical experimentation and more or less concluded that the best combination to use was 1 ounce of number 7 shot and a lightly choked gun. Lagopus.....

You know your ability , do not surpass it .
If the shooter on the other side of you is KILLING 70 yard birds on a regular basis he is not shooting "high". If you are MISSING 45 yard birds on a regular basis then you are shooting "high"

This is a good question.

Driven shooting is a disciplined sport and it needs to be learned properly if it is to be enjoyed and if your participation is to be enjoyed by your peers!

At the peg, 'your bird' will be in a 'window', flying towards you and over your peg. Shootinga t birds quartering you or flying towards or over the people either side of you is 'not done' (actually it is done and causes lots of bad feeling when it is so don't YOU do it).

On to high birds. The sport in driven bird shooting is challenging yourself to kill challenging birds. Nobody here would shoot a pheasant at 2 yards right?

So, how about five yards or ten or fifteen?

If you are ahalway competent shot, I would say that you should probably not be shooting at pheasants less than 20-25 yards away, ever. What is the point? It becomes 'just killing'.

so, depending how competent you are, you will want to challenge yourself to shoot birds that are achallenge. If teh gamekeeper cah show the birds so that they aere 30-40 yards over the guns, it produces exciting, challenging shooting, which is great sport.

Each person should know his level of competence and shoot accordingly.

There are some shoots which specialise in showing very high pheasants. some shooters kill these cleanly with impressinve regularity. If this is their level, they are in teh right place, doing the right thing. If your level of competence and equipment on pheasants a 50 yards is not up to teh job, you are better not doing it yet.

I like to see my birds hid hard and killed. I can do this with fairly good regularity at driven pheasants on the 30-40 yard range with my normal game guns.

I have shot 'high pheasants' in Wales and I know what is stretching my competence and what it trying my luck. I discipline myself to the former whan choosing shots. I have surprised myself at what I can kill regularly with 30g of No.6 in I.C barrels.

What I don't like to see is pickers-up half a mile from the Gun line coming back with armfuls of birds that took lead and flew on pricked, to be picked up hundreds of yards away. Just my personal opinion.

I have regularly shot driven pheasant and partridge for over 40 years here in England. I have belonged to a syndicate on a small estate in Northamptonshire all that time, as well as a roving syndicate (taking four days a season on different estates) for 20 years, usually 200-250 bird days. We have not done any well known high bird shoots, but have had the privilege of shooting some drives where a combination of topography, weather and skillful presentation has shown us some high birds.

These high birds are challenging and satisfying to kill. However they are not the norm for our shooting and, I suspect, for the majority of regular life-long guns. We do not change our guns (all are traditional English side by side doubles) or our cartridges; we just shoot within our individual capabilities.

Should I be fortunate enough one day to be invited to shoot on a renowned high bird estate, short of buying new guns, I would have to change my cartridges to ones with larger shot and a larger charge. Since my guns are bored True and IC I would have to restrict myself to those birds that I consider to be within range of my guns and within my physical and ethical capability to kill. I might not contribute so much to the bag, but I would be hopeful not to have pricked any birds. And of course I would hope for the more important aspect of the day - a fine time with like minded folk, enjoying their company and some beautiful countryside, as well as a fine lunch!

Tim

A great perspective. I haven't done a driven shoot, nor do I see one in my future, being in the western United States. But, on occasion, I do hunt by myself. These solitary hunts are always for wild California quail. I always miss the company of good friends during these hunts and find it more enjoyable with those friends. High birds, long birds, fast birds, none of it means anything unless you have hunting friends to share the stories and experiences with. Thanks for pointing that out Tim.