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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315 |
Could someone please translate these (hand drawn) marks for a fella; specifically the upper right hand crown over something and '75'? Is that an export mark? No-name Birmingham BLNE and not my gun. (I need to figure out a way to bill for my posting services  ) Thanks! 
Last edited by Drew Hause; 02/25/10 10:18 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496 |
Drew:
I may be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that NONE of these "proof marks" were applied by any UK proof house. Birmingham or London. They're very amateurishly done.
Best, Kensal
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,737 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,737 Likes: 96 |
Kensal I think that is a case of rough drughtsmanship. All the marks on the left make sense and are Birmingham Company Proof marks for a 12 bore shotgun with 2 2/4" chambers as applied betwen 1925 and 1954. The mark that looks like a roadkill buzzard the crown and the mirror image E and the 75 are not somehting that I recognise. Sorry about the squashed buzzard bit but it was the best description I could think of. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315 |
Could the 'roadkill buzzard' and the Crown over W (sideways) represent the post-1950 Suhl proofs? Did Suhl date the proof? Made in GB and exported to a German distributor?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,752
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,752 |
Ill go with the Birmingham proofs.
As for the Crown over W, thats a German proof. I would guess that the mark abovethe Crown over W is likely the Reich Eagle with outspread wings over " N", which was adopted in 1939, and used until 1945, except for VERY blurry, with the elements running together.
Just an idea.
Regards
GKT
Texas Declaration of Independence 1836 -The Indictment against the dictatorship, Para.16:"It has demanded us to deliver up our arms, which are essential to our defence, the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments."
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 419
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 419 |
the upper right mark looks like an English Military inspection stamp maybe the gun at one time saw some kind of service?
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610 |
Drew, it may be a West German proof mark. The squashed buzzard looks something like that bird,and the crown with the W may be the German choked barrel proof mark. There are issues with these guesses. The WGerman proof marks with that bird all have letters underneanth but no crowns,and the crown with the W was not used after 1939,or so my book says. If we surmise that the 75 is the date it was proved{1975} it works out.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,522
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,522 |
Drew, check the chamber length. I think the marks might be some amateur counterfeiter's effort to make it appear the gun was reproofed in France for 3" (75mm) chambers. Could the crown over the sideways E be a P.T. instead? And the squashed buzzard is a poor attempt to make the crossed palm branch French proof marks? The sideways E might also be an attempt to make it appear the proof was at Etienne. There have been lots of years of unscrupulous activity regarding proofs to skirt the laws.
Last edited by Jerry V Lape; 02/25/10 04:56 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 155
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 155 |
Fellows, why are we talking about "poor attempt", "counterfeit, "amateur", etc? You're looking at hand-drawn representations of what's on the gun. How well can you draw?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,752
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,752 |
hmmm... pics would help a good deal.
Crown over W is an unmistakeable German mark, not duplicated elsewhere that I know of.
Regards
GKT
Texas Declaration of Independence 1836 -The Indictment against the dictatorship, Para.16:"It has demanded us to deliver up our arms, which are essential to our defence, the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments."
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