I picked up a cool little M95 today. It has a 308 stamped next to the name on the barrel so I will for sure cast the chamber. I will be suprised if it is chambered in .308.

more pic's

Beautiful. I've always admired those 95 sporters. I would be glad if it was still in 8x50R. I had a Lee sporter in that caliber. Brits considered it better than a .303 because it used a heavier bullet. It was a great shooter. Wish I still had it.

Does it looked to be lined or the like? Most difficult to discern from the few mixed touchmarks, but it appears that the tube began in Ferlach, or similar, as a 15.8mm tube? Then there may have been some German intervention in March of 1943? There look to be additional German marks on the side of the receiver?

I like that acorn bolt handle.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks

I will look a little closer tonight for anymore proofs and if I can tell it it has been lined.

Friedrich Ogris, St. Margarethen bei Ferlach. According to my notes active from c. 1910 to c. 1940.
Ferlach proof March 1943.
Caliber 8x50R or 8x60R; likely the former as "5" is struck deeper.

Cheers,
Jani

R Marshall,
See my comments in the GGCA forum. I didn't think about the rimmed version of 8x60, but I don't know if an 8x50R extractor will hold it either.
Mike

P.S.:

15.8 (...) g MG = 15.8 gramm Mantelgeschoss = 244 grains jacketed bullet. This is standard bullet weight for 8x50R.

Cheers,
Jani

Diggin' the acorn bolt handle....

Thanks Jani so is that "15.8" stamp something the Germans required the Austrian's to apply during the occupation? I don't know that I've seen such a bullet weight nor datecode on a bona-fide pre-WWII Ferlach sporting weapon?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, during WWII Austria was integrated into the German Reich (as "Ostmark"). Consequently Ferlach was under German rule also so the German gun proof law was followed, including all marks. The only traditional Ferlach mark retained was the Carinthian coat of arms, as seen on the rifle in question.

Cheers,
Jani

Thanks for all the info!!! I plan to do a chamber cast and slug the bore soon.

Thank
Robert

8x60R is the smokeless version Kropachek bolt action rifle round.
That replaced the 8x56R Kropachek BP round,,which was also used in the Guedes single shot rifle. All for Portugal, Steyr made rifles.

The 8x56R Kropachek case is not the same round as the 8x56R Austrian MAnnlicher.
The Kropechek rounds (8x56/60R) use a case that is larger dia at the base,,like the Lebel round.

Maybe the bbl came from a sporter of some sort made up in the 8x60R Krop round. Then recycled here. It would have had to be set back a bit for rechamber to the 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher rd to remove the oversized rear chamber segment.

Does this sporter still use the M95 en-bloc clips for loading and feeding,,or has the magazine been converted to hold and feed cartridges w/an interupter and feed rail?

Interested to hear what the chamber & bore cast reveal.

Nice sporter. I had a couple 1/2stocked in 8x50R and they were very nice rifles. I made cases from 7.62 Russian at the time.

it still looks to be clip feed. Here are a few picture of the bolt head also.

Without measuring the boltface, it looks like it is still for a rimmed cartridge and would not hold 308, 8x57, or 8x60(Mauser).On reflection, an 8x50R chamber shoulder may "stop" a 308 cartridge close to the right place. This points out the danger of just trying a cartridge to determine caliber.
Mike

I just slugged the bore and it reads : bore .3135 and bullet dia .3285

Hmm,
The 8x50R used .323" bullets and the 8x56R used .329"; I was leaning toward 8x50R, but now I don't know. We often work with rifles that have a groove diameter larger than the bullet, but they are usually BP rifles, which this is not.
Mike

That's odd because the military rifles were just rechambered from the shorter 8x50R (round nosed bullets) to the longer 8x56R (spitzer bullets). You find all the military rifles with an "S" stamped on the barrel ahead of the receiver. I'm still hoping to find one still in 8x50R. Cramming hotter loaded .006 oversize bullets down the barrel must have been interesting.

This was my first time slugging a bore and measuring the out come. My measurements could be off a little. I’ll cast the chamber next week.

M95 bore (land dia.) is .315 and groove .329 so this seems to be a normal 8x50R barrel. 8x56R used the same barrel (rechambered) but all vintage M95 sporters I have seen here on the former Austro-Hungarian territory were chambered for the original 8x50R (a few were rebarreled to 7x57R in Ferlach). So I am rather confident that a chamber cast will confirm the 8x50R.

Cheers,
Jani

HalfaDouble,
It is possible, I guess, that the Germans went back to their WW1 process of making the chamber neck large enough to release the larger bullet. Mauser Oberndorf rifles made between the wars were often chambered this way, which allowed use of 8x60 and 8x60S ammo ( .005" oversize).Oversize bullets entering a barrel become groove diameter by the time they have traveled their own length in the barrel, What drives the pressure up is the case neck jamming into the chamber and not releasing the bullet until the pressure builds up. This can be caused by an oversize bullet in a tight chamber, or by an overlength neck jamming into the leade. I would be interested also if you could slug an original 8x50R barrel, it is possible they were .329" groove.
Mike
See Jani's comment above, I guess that answers the diameter question.
Mike

Thanks for the info Jani. I plan to slug the bore 1 or 2 more times and cast the chamber once the supplies get here next week.

Thanks for all the replies
Robert

Maybe the Brits didn't make their 8mm barrels to that spec but whatever it was my Lee was very happy back then with the heaviest .323 bullets I could find which were good old Herters.

This is my first time casting a chamber so I hope it is close. here is a picture of my measurments. overall case length is hard to measure but it is around 1.96-1.97

R. Marshall,
The sketch doesn't include lengths, but I will make some more or less educated guesses, nevertheless. The head diameter( .5000"), right away, eliminates .308, 8x60, and 8x60R Mauser from consideration. Your statement that the caselength is around 1.96-1.97" eliminates 8x56R Hun. and 8x60R Krop. from consideration. This leaves only the 8x50R Austrian, which was the original caliber for the M95. This brings to mind the old saying," when you hear hoofbeats, think horses before zebras". The dimensions, shown, don't exactly match, but they hardly ever do. As a general rule, however, chamber cast dimensions are usually larger than cartridge dimensions. A chamber must be larger than the cartridge, for the cartridge to enter. A couple of the dimensions shown are smaller than the cartridge dimensions given in COTW, but not by much. There are often small differences with COTW dimensions, it is difficult to measure a chamber cast precisely to a tenth of a thousandth of an inch and timing of "cure time" for the cast may not be exact. With all this taken into account, I'm confident that my guess of 8x50R is accurate, and it matches Jani's. One minor point for future consideration: the "lands" and "grooves" on the chamber cast are reversed from the barrel, so sometimes description of dimensions are confusing. I was surprised to see actual barrel groove dimension is .329", but .329" bullets are available from PRVI( see Graf's).
Mike

Thanks Mike for your help.

Robert,
Unsurprisingly, your sketch confirms the standard 8x50R Mannlicher chambering.
Despite the .329" groove diamater Austrians used .323 bullets. Today handloaders are using long heavy flat-base bullets of this common diameter with good results. Some use .329" bullets as mentioned by Mike and some even go to the trouble to squize .338 bullets down to about .330".
A couple of additional notes. A friend noted from the photographs that your rifle uses the M90 carbine receiver, not the standard M95. The M90 carbine receiver has a higher rear bridge, similar in shape to the receiver ring, while the M95 has a lower and flatter rear bridge. Another observation is that your hunting rifle seemingly uses a longer barrel than the usual 20" carbine tube. Could you measure it?
Cheers,
Jani

Jani,
The barrel measures 19 7/8” to the front of the receiver. The stock makes the barrel look longer in the picture. A long heavy .323 bullet sounds like the ticket. Thanks so much for your help.


Robert

This rifle will be used for close range deer. So it will not be shot a whole lot. I have started searching for components and I ran across a 210gr .324 gas check hard cast bullet. I would like to keep it close to the original ammo and not try to modernize the round. Any suggestion would helpful and appreciated.

R.Marshall,
8x50R Austrian cases are hard to find, especially reasonably priced ones. However, Graf & Sons has 8x56R Hun. cases in stock( primed 79.99/100, unprimed 75.99/100), that are boxer primed, PRVI make. They also stock a variety of 8mm bullets, from .323" to .330". Buffalo Arms has a variety of 8mm bullets as well. Due to the longer neck and more sloping shoulder of 8x56R cases, sizing them to 8x50R Austrian is a pretty easy operation, using only the loading dies( form dies not required). Trim to length and load will result in perfectly useable ammo, which will form to fit the chamber with the first firing. Appropriate powder and primer choice depends on your selected load. There is nothing wrong with the cast bullet you have found and a "pile" of deer have been killed with cast bullets. I think you have a fun project in the works.
Mike

Thanks Mike!

I've bought a bunch from this fells => https://bullshop.weebly.com/

He puts out a good bullet and offers one (which I haven't tried yet) for my 8x56R at 205gr. gas checked. The website is a bit 'unintuitive' for me. Select 'More' in the top banner and you'll find the .330" bullet in the '32 Caliber' section.

The 205gr. Hornady's from Graf's shoot very well in my carbine and the brass has been first rate all along.

Der Ami - Mike, you have a PM.

Cheers,
Jani

Jani,
I got it.
Mike

I finally have some dies, Woodleigh 250gr 323dia bullets and primed brass on the way.