First of all, thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum. I've learned a lot already just reading other entries.

I inherited a German Drilling from my late father, who brought it back with him to NY at the end of WWII. It's been in storage until very recently. Fired 4 rounds a few weeks ago. It's in great condition cosmetically and mechanically. All original, nice engravings, walnut stock, horn trigger guard, low SN.

I'm looking to get info on it and determine its value. Many people suggested I come here.

The name on it is Robert Schuler - Koln. I've learned that Schuler was more of a retailer and not a gun maker, so still trying to determine who made it. There is a "JW" makers mark near the serial # - hoping someone has some insight on that. There are plenty of other marks as well.

I have photos - looking to find how to upload them to this forum. If anyone can help with that I'd appreciate it.

Muddy22
Except for an estimate of value, we will do the best we can, after you post the photos.
Mike

Thanks. Got some help from a member (Keith) who sent me to Postimage.org. I was hoping to add the actual photos (not working) but here is the "hotlink" which, hopefully opens the gallery:

https://postimg.org/gallery/1zwwn64li/

I'll keep trying to get the actual images into the post (which I see others doing). please let me know if this hotlink isn't working.

Click on a single picture, click on "Share"
Copy info in direct link
Paste here
put [img] belore link
put [/img] behind link
no spaces

Mike

Muddy22,
Your drilling is chambered for 8x57IR,as indicated by the 7.8mm over 57 and the proof for a steel jacketed bullet(Stmg) of 15grams weight.
The barrels are made of Krupp barrel steel. It is nitro proofed, and the crown G shows it was proofed for a single projectile(bullet)The crown U shows it went through a View proof, which is a detailed inspection, including verification of dimensions, after definitive proof. The 16 in a circle means it has a 65mm(21/2-2 9/16")16 ga.chamber. This was the standard at the time and is shorter than the current standard of 70mm( 2 3/4"). The 16/1 is the bore diameter of the barrel, ahead of the chamber. This is about 16.99mm, expressed in gauge measurement. The crown W means the barrel is choked, but the amount of constriction is not shown. The WK by the serial number(1789) is the mark of the rifle barrel maker. There were several that might have WK as initials. I didn't see a crown S, it means it was proofed for shot, if you find one. It was proofed in Suhl, but I didn't see a date( Normally found by the 7.8/57). If there isn't one the gun was likely proofed between 1911 and 1922. It has interrupting sears and cocking indicators. While incomplete, I hope you find this helpful. BTW, I think the drilling is very nice, with better than the standard game scene engraving, and I think you should keep it or pass it down.
Mike

Lovely Kerner-Anson Drilling w/ bushed & disk set strikers.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for into. Two follow-up questions:
Barrels are marked: KRUPP-Lauer. I assumed these were the barrel makers.
If WK is the barrel maker, is there a way to determine the actual gun maker?

And would the gold inlaid RK in the stock be the owner?

Krupp made bar stock & the Belgians converted the bar stock into rough bored tubes. The Germans purchased the rough bored tubes and transformed them into barrels. In this case, renown tube finished Wilhelm Kelber finished these. Not really a means to tell as Robert Schüler either had the marks worked off or instructed the mechanics to either hide their initials or leave them off all together. RK would have been the original custodian.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey:
Thanks for the info. This is the first I've had anyone call this a Kerner-Anson gun. Does that mean they are the makers? If so, how did you decide that's the case?

Muddy22, you can simply click on any image in your Postimages gallery, and then left click on "Share" at the top-left of the page. You will get a drop-down list, and second from the bottom is "Hotlink for forums". Left click on the File icon at the right and it should say "copied". Then right click in the reply box here and select "paste". No need to put put [img] before link or put [/img] behind link. Simpler to do it like this:



Lovely drilling by the way. I agree with Mike. It's a keeper.

Great stuff. Thank you, as that solves the "WK" mystery. Who actually gets credit for "making" guns like this one? If I'm asked "who made your gun" is there a way of having an answer to that question?

Thanks - the other way did not work for me. If anyone needs more photos posted I will use that way.

Got great info in just one day. You guys (and gals) are amazing. I guess the final things I'm looking for (if possible) are the name of the "gun maker" - and the date (year?) it was made - if those are even possible to figure-out from the markings or any other clues the gun may provide.

Fella:

Below is some text on the Kerner - Anson(Deeley Body Action) platform w/ 1/2 pipe side-frame reinforcement. When you view the back of the frame it is the pin/screw configuration that gives it away. You should be able to search this site w/ the term Kerner & find all the info you desire. To point to a specific Suhl mechanic, you'll have to go over the example w/ a fine toothed comb/glass & look for initials & related touchmarks. These may be under the rib, back of the action under the stock, etc.


"Below is Axel E.'s opinion on the platform:"

"This is Emil Kerner's improvement on the Anson and Deeley boxlock. By relocating the sear detents from the bottom of the hammers to the rear tops, as far away from the fulcrum as possible, Kerner greatly reduced the pressure the detents have to hold. The improved leverage makes secondary intercepting sears unnecessary. Simson/BSW incorporated Kerner's top-hinged sears into their boxlocks in the 1930s. Since then these sears became the Suhl industry standard. All post-WW2 Simson and Merkel boxlocks feature Kerner's sears. Barthold's "Jagdwaffenkunde", the GDR time textbook for gunmaker apprentices, show no other boxlock design."

"Below are a few DRGMs issued to the Kerners:

Gebrauchsmuster Nr. 169054 - Drei aus dem Abzugsblech ange ordnete Hammerschlösser mit ansrechtstehenden Schlagsedern am Selbstspanner Dreiläufergewehr deren Mittelschloß selbstthätig gesichert und beim Entsichern die verbind von Schloßstange mit Abzug herstellt - Ernst Kerner Suhl in TH - January 27th 1902

Sicherungsklappe

Gebrauchsmuster Nr. 200945 - Unter Federdruck stehende, seitlich über springende Sicherungsklappe der Schloßstangen an Mehrlaufgewehren, die beim Vorgehen des am Stengel des Umstellers angelenkten Tragschiebers mit Zwischenstauge zurückgedrückt entsichert - Emil Kerner - May 5th 1903

Gebrauchsmuster Nr. 193622 of Feburary 2nd 1903 held by Emil Kerner was for some cartridge trap innovation

Gebrauchsmuster - DRGM - 531992 - Vom Schlossblech unabhängiges Nachspannschloss. Ernst Kerner, Suhl

******"Gebrauchsmuster - DRGM - 531992 - Vom Schlossblech unabhängiges Nachspannschloss. Ernst Kerner, Suhl - Me thinks this just might be the culprit????*******"

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post495354

Until then, it was made in Suhl by a subcontractor-mechanic to Robert Schüler.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

muddy22,
The word is not Lauer, instead it is Lauf, which means barrel in German. Absent ID markings, it is very difficult to find out who the actual maker is. It may not be possible to find a date of manufacture, closer than the range of dates above. If you post another photograph of the entire area of the bottom of the rifle barrel, where the 7.8/57 is located; I will give it a try.
Mike

Well, not to overlook anything
You have review your drilling in light of below?

http://www.shotguns.se/html/germany_1890-1945.html

Evaluate items #6 and #29

Mike

muddy22'
Can you check to see if your receiver is made of Dural( Aluminum)? Maybe with a magnet. The discs at the firing pins are common (necessary) in Dural receivers. If so it could narrow the search for maker and time.
Mike

Mike:
Did magnet test - it sticks to the receiver. I also took your advice and checked for a number below the 7.8 57 markings on the underside of the barrell - and found 1236. Guessing that means the gun was manufactured in Dec. of 1936. Please confirm.
Thanks
Muddy22

Muddy22,
Dec.36 is correct.
Mike

Thanks. I think I've gotten about as much info on this gun (outside of the actual maker - and owner) that I can get at this point. I thank all of you again. Waiting to hear back from a few auction sites to see if they can do an appraisals to determine its value.

Good on ya !!
Start your value education here

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=german%20drilling

Lovely platform w/ the designed proper bore for the scattergun tubes & a popular rifle cartridge chambered by one of the best tube makers. You won't know until the value is actually realized, but I'd hazard a guess on the open market it would realize a value in the low $2k realm.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Hello muddy22
I sent you a PM
Mike