Hello Everyone,

My father had this gun in his house for about 30 years, and I recently inherited it. I was wondering if anyone knew the details about it, and its approximate value. I have attached various pictures of the proof marks, etc. On top of the barrel, covered by the scope mounts, reads "...ER & Sohne, Kriensen". From the research that I have done, I believe it is a Burgmuller & Sohne, made in Kriensen, Germany? Any other help would be great - thanks in advance! [img]https://imgur.com/NmJME8Y[/img]

Sorry pics didn't work but i'll figure it out.

OK, I failed! Can I use Imgur to post pics? Only the link is showing up, but I want the actual pictures in this thread so that they are easier for everyone to see.

Looks like a Z-M reproof in 1943?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Alright, let's try the pictures once again:

[img:center]http://https://imgur.com/a/UTWGM[/img]

Well, that didn't work - how about these:

[img:center]https://imgur.com/bXXyXH3[/img]
[img:center]https://imgur.com/lpmDuLZ[/img]
[img:center]https://imgur.com/rn3ljyy[/img]
[img:center]https://imgur.com/Nq7tJwX[/img]
[img:center]https://imgur.com/VyVutwt[/img]
[img:center]https://imgur.com/b2gThsB[/img]
[img:center]https://imgur.com/bXXyXH3[/img]

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

One can view them images of the Hahn Drilling:

https://imgur.com/a/UTWGM

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Raimey!

Looks like manufactured in Suhl between 1912 & 1923.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Can you pleasure us w/ a better image of the above where there are characters to the right of 843 & above the 16.65 on the extractor?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I can't make out the Suhl mechanic's name in lower case. Looks like either Backmann or Ga????mann???? or Gynammnamm. Most difficult to discern. Apply some chalk or soap & hopefully it will ferret out the characters.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Tremendous thanks Raimey! You are correct; it's very hard to read, but i'll try your chalk/soap trick tomorrow and will post pics.

BA

BA:

Very easily it could have been retailed by Burgmüller & Sohne, Kriensen. I believe Sohne was added in 1908?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I agree the gun was Marketed by Burgsmueller& Sohn, proofed in Suhl sometime between 1911/12 and 1922/23. It was reproofed in Zella Mehlis in 1943. The 9.3x72 and 16.65 stamps are problematical. They don't seem workmanlike enough to be from the proofhouse, I wonder if they were placed there by an owner. The 8.8 is consistent with other Suhl proofs from 1911/12(later they added case length). It was reproofed under the 1939 law which required caliber designation in common use form.
Mike

I took some pics tonight of the writing using some paint to highlight the lettering, but it is still very hard to read. Under a magnifying glass, it looks like "Gqranrmann" or "Gyirainmann". Someone on another site said that it may be Cyrillic?
Once again, I tried loading the pics, but now I get the message that "IE blocked a pop up from Computer One" when I click the add image icon. Anyway, I added them to the album in ellenbr's link above or at the address below.
https://imgur.com/a/UTWGM

Thanks again for your help. Any ideas on value (can I sell it and retire, or buy a small Caribbean island)?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

There was a Hugo Grassmann and a Paul Grassmann that were mechanics in Zella - Mehlis.

G. Gressmann.....


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, as far as I can see, it was in 1929

1929 Umfirmierung in H. Burgsmüller & Söhne GmbH

Cheers,
Wolfgang

Many thanks Wolfgang for the effort. I've seen a couple listings & one noted that in 1906 that the sons Karl & Wilhelm of Burgsmüller were taken on as stakeholders. Then in 1908 son Wilhelm hit the road to hang out his own gunmaking shingle leaving Karl w/ the reins of the company. Might need to get Moose Snoot on the search????

Karl or Karl Junior just might have taken over in 1918?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I think I made a mistake. We have to differ between the Gewehrfabrik and the Maschinenfabrik. The latter was, which I wrote.

For the Gewehrfabrik look here: https://www.booklooker.de/Bücher/Deutsche-Waffen-Fahrrad-Fabriken-H-Burgsmüller-Söhne-Kreiensen-Gewehrfabrik+Moderne-Waffen/id/A0283ad801ZZ7

The catalogue is from 1910...! So you probably are right.

Chgeers,
Wolfgang

very pitted outside, hope the rifle bore is better kept. The shotgun bore can usually be honed if necessary. Is the action good and tight? Good luck with a family heirloom! Steve

Thanks for everyone's replies. Any idea on what a fair market ballpark price would be?

ba

Ba, everyone has been sidestepping it but if the bores are anywhere as rust pitted as the rest you might be optimistically looking at a $100 wall hanger over the fireplace.

Thanks for the information, everyone! I'll try to get a picture of the bores for your assessment. They actually look pretty smooth and shiny to my untrained eye. My goal is to sell this for a fair price (without seeing it in a year from now on "Antiques Roadshow" for $500,000! lol)to someone who wants a restoration project.

BA