I'm looking for help dating an Otto Bock kipplauf. Here are images of the markings:






7x57R and nitro prooved for a 10 gram bullet I got but nothing regarding the date.

Thanks in advanced.
Dennis

The sporting weapon experienced proof in the final state between 1912 & 1923 in Suhl. The tube was sourced for the Schilling forge and additional effort was applied by said forge. The scope mount obscures the bullet type which is above the 10 gramme bullet weight.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks, Raimey, for the response. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Excuse my ignorance, but what led you to Schilling for the barrel and proving at Suhl? Is it safe to assume that the scope was added later?

Here are some images of the action and if you have any ideas about the manufacturer I would appreciate help with that too. I have a number of prewar Suhl Continental guns but all were marked Suhl and had proving date codes so even I could figure out the firearms' origins.






Dennis

Ah, the mm stamp & it being void of a datecode, which Zella-Mehlis officially commenced w/ in 1911. It somewhat resembles a Greifelt Modell Nr. 180 but the possibility exists he sourced E. Schmidt & Habermann. Yes, I would hazard a guess the scope mounts were added a bit later, possibly in Otto Bock's shop. The S in a chevron is the mark of the Schilling forge.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey: Any thoughts on the"backward" arrangement of the claw mounts? (I generally see them with the release to the rear) I too have one set up like that...Steve

Steve, I'm not sure why the hook base & lock base are reversed on the Suhler montage. Maybe a request of the client? What you'd have would be either be a fore or aft pivot. Good eye though.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Steve and Raimey: as far as I know, it's a so called "Kontra-Einhakmontage", made in the 1970ies and 80ies by Kettner Germany. The only purpose probably was to offer something "New"... It was nearly the same as the Suhler Einhakmontage but offered for some less money. Functionally it was like the Original.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

I just found something similar called ZP Kontra Einhakmontage:

http://www.zp-einhakmontage.de/front_content.php?idcat=6

Cheers,
Wolfgang

Wolfgang:

Sort of hard to believe those hook & lock bases are from the 1970s, but I'll go with the Kontra Montage.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, of course you are right, probably there was an earlier maker of this kind of Suhler Einhakmontage! All repeats itself...

Cheers,
Wolfgang

Indeed, Wolfgang. Nothing created or destroyed here, just a change in state or a rediscovery.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

A follow up on the marke of a S in a Chevron being the marke of the Schilling - Schmiede:

Schilling Schmiede was founded by Ernst Friedrich Schilling in 1862 with possibly roots centred around a forge dating back another 100 years. About the commencement of WWI Ernst Hermann Schilling was @ the helm.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Sorry to "chime in" so late, the Kontra-Einhakmontage, can be set up using normal parts. It just depends on how you turn them. and locate the bases. For a while, ERA offered them for "standard" bolt action rifles, with screw on bases.I mounted a set on my G33-40, 9x57. They allow lower mounting of the scope and still have the bases on the factory drilled receiver(if it is factory drilled). Since it tips backwards, the scope objective bell does not hit the barrel. I have to remove the bolt to take the scope off my rifle, but I modified the boltstop, so that is a quick operation. The Kontra mounts on a Kipplauf allow lower mounting, without the front base being too far forward(maybe interfering with rear sight). With a Kipplauf, you may or may not have to break it open to remove the scope.
Mike

The scope bases are old and would surprise me if they don't date to somewhere between the wars. My guess is that the scope was mounted sans see-through bases in a low position and had to have the bases reversed from what we normally see for configuration to be removable.

I have a Hensoldt Klein Dialyt straight tube 2 3/4x scope that I intend to put on the rifle and in a low mount position it appears that the action may have to be opened to remove such a scope.

I wonder how recoil forces differ according to set-up? The small feet of the catch are now where the hooks would be...is there any likelihood of them bending due to the direction of recoil in one configuration vs another?

Steve,
That is a consideration, when fitting them up. In factory mount parts, there is a small vertical section on the hook, that bears on the "plate". These two parts are usually mated to each other under hydraulic power, and fit very well. This will hold the scope, unless "rounded "by the gunsmith. Of course, "shop made" parts may or may not have this feature. The "feet" can't be fitted this closely, because there must be enough clearance to allow them to swing in an arc, the other side of the "feet" is under spring tension. This part holds the scope down, and side to side; the "hooks" have to hold it "fore and aft". I would say this set up requires careful fitting, but all claw mounts do.
Mike

Got caught up on some photography today from work in the past months.

I finished a new stock on the Bock and made the claw mounts and rings so it now is scoped. That is the last of my Hensoldt Klein-Dialyts so if anyone has one that they want to sell or trade let me know.

Wouldn't reversing the mount allow the use of rings on the main body of a scope with an enlarged objective, since the need to clear the objective when mounting/dismounting the scope would be removed? The scope could be removed or replaced with the Kipplauf action open.

That's my assumption too. The action has to be slightly opened to get the scope on and off. Not ideal but to have had to remove the bases and reversed them was not a desirable option.