have delightful little 16 gauge hammer gun with barrel stamps:

ed. kettner

koln

what can you tell us about this maker?

The Franz Kettner for whom the Frank Kettner gunshop in K�ln was named was born in 1808 and more than likely became a master gunsmith in 1834 as he founded the business on May 15th 1835. His walk-about must have taken him to distant master gunsmiths and that was what added a few years to the typical time for a gunsmith to acquire their master sheepskin. His father, Karl Franz Josef Kettner, was a top/head forester and his brother was businessman Eduard Kettner and he was born 3 years after Franz in 1811. Master gunsmith Franz Kettner had a son named Franz Kettner as well as a grandson named Franz Kettner and the next master gunsmith heir was named Eduard Franz Kettner who was born 100 years after Franz Kettner in 1908, more than likely became a master gunsmith during tough times circa 1932 and expired in 2006. I'm sure each and all passed thru several of the Suhl gunsmith shops on their respective walkabouts. Franz Otto Julius Kettner, son of Eduard Kettner and nephew of Franz Kettner, was only listed as a businessman as I can find, but Axel Panterm�hl of Germany and contributor/member of the GGCA( http://www.germanguns.com ) notes that Franz Otto Julius Kettner worked a stint at Christan Sturm, who I would guess to be the son of Wolfgang Heinrich Sturm(Daniel Sturm was also a master) who didn't Ghee-Haw with Sauer in the mid 1830s and it may have been the fact that Sauer & Ferdinand Spangenberg had buddied up but by the time Franz Otto Julius Kettner was born in 1852 Sauer & Sturm had had some sort of a come to Jesus� meeting and resolved their differences. I'd guess the time period to be in the 1870s and Franz Otto Julius Kettner may have also worked at the Sauer facility, as well as others in Suhl. July 23rd of 1884 witnessed the founding of the Eduard Kettner firm and there had to be a master gunsmith on staff and it may have been one of the Franz Kettners because some family centered dispute led to stiff competition between the Kettner klan of K�ln. Eduard Kettner advertised as Gewehrfabrik in K�ln a. Rh.(on Rhine River) und Suhl i.(in) Th.(Thuringia) which is sort of deceiving as Suhl was sourced, many times it was Bernhard Merkel( I think him to be a huge filed frame or example in the white source for almost all non-Suhl retailers) as well as the Sturm folks, who was also sourced by Franz Kettner and during WWI in 1916 Sturm's widow was managing the company and taking orders. I've wondered for some time with the rules/guidelines of the gun maker's guild if widow was were allowed to continue their husband's business without their being a master gunsmith on staff. This seems to be the case. Anyway, about 1920, Franz Kettner absorbed/purchased Sturm's widow's firm and expanded and the firm employed the following craftsmen:
A dozen actioners, a couple of engravers(this is the main difference in Eduard & Franz Kettner examples) and a few less than a 1/2 dozen stockers. 5 years later Eduard Kettner sold his business to Dornheim and the bombing on June 30th, 1943 pretty much leveled everything sending Franz to Suhl for the remainder of the war. Post WWII he had a small shop and supplied examples to BuHaG. In 1971 Kettner heirs began opening stores with Hemer followed by Ratingen, Hamburg, M�nster(?), Oldenburg and later Vienna. I think Kettner went under but someone has started anew. By the way the use/re-use of the same first name is what really complicates retracing the history of gunmakers.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...0d0f3c334db6f22

Amtlich Vierfach Gepr�ft und Eingeschossen mit St�rkster ladung Rauchlosen Pulvers


Advertising that notes a quad proof

Czech version - Uredne Ctyrnasobne Zkousena a Nastrelena Nejsilnejsim Nabojem Bezd�mn�ho Prachu

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post369352

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Pretty and light little gun

Pictures can be seen here

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/564864739

Ed, can you post a clearer one of the proof marks?

Thank you
Mike

I once posted the Chronic of Kettners Centenary:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339399&page=3

in German... :-((

Cheers,
Gunwolf

Wolfgang:

Would it be possible you could give us the synopsis?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I will do when I have more time. In general you are right of course as written above!

Cheers,
Wolfgang

raimey, thanks as always, for sharing your wonderful knowledge and info with us...

I wince when I think how under priced for value many light, trim German side by sides were 25 yrs. ago--not the Merkels or Kreighoffs, but the ones with less name recognition to the under-informed. I should have bought all the ones I saw at around 2-250 USD.

this is a test to see if ah can upload pitchers...

got thu pitcher out on photo bucket...how do ah git hit here?

[img]Edit this post...put the URL of the image between these image tags - Weber[/img]

Grab the IMG code(copy) & then paste it here.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

hey! it worked! easy once you get simple instruction...

thanks raimey...

awww geezz....lovely gun. I am such a sucker for old hammer guns. I would be like my wife at a kennel, I want to take them all home.