Maker or marketeer?
Based on the education I've been getting here, the name on the barrel ain't necessarily who made it. Searching this forum only yields shotgun results. General 'net searches tend to lead here but otherwise didn't really tell me much.
I'd be interested in any information, particularly date of manufacture,
If pictures would help, let me know what and I will try to respond in a timely fashion.
Thank you,
Hoot
Pictures always help, as detailed as possible of any markings, both above and below the wood.
For another Miller & Val Greiss Mauser, see
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=161765&an=0&page=-1#Post161765
Thank you Sir.
My searching brought up that thread. My rifle is a close "twin" to the one shown only some "enterprising soul" took it upon themselves to restock it in more of an American fashion.
Other than that and the caliber (8x57 here), all the metal bits are the same only with a bit less engraving.
I will carve out some time to take some pictures over the weekend and post back.
Cheers!
Miller & Val Griess marketed guns made by others, although I couldn't say they never made any. It's likely they "finished" some.
Mike
The following article may shed a little light on the firm of Miller and Val. Greiss:
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/German_Research/miller_and_val_greiss.htmlIncidentally, the name is "Greiss" not "Griess". The name is spelled both ways in the attached article, but the photo of the barrel inscription leaves no doubt.
Interesting article, thank you!
Most likely, my grade school spelling lessons took over whilst transcribing the barrel markings. That's my excuse anyway.
Edited to add: Yep, there it is bigger than life: "Greiss"
Hoot,
Your barreled action(at least-maybe whole rifle)was made by Mauser-Werke A.G. Oberndorf a.N in about 1910. This is indicated by the Mauser serial number 42xxx located behind the recoil lug and the bottom of the barrel.This same number should appear on the back of the magazine box. The 7.7 is the bore(not groove or bullet)diameter. This mark usually corresponds to the I (J) version of the 8x57 cartridge. The rifle was intended for .318" bullets, but some rifles will accept other diameter bullets. It will accept whatever diameter bullet will easily fit into the neck of a case fired in the rifle( be sure to check with bullet shank, not a cartridge).The scope and mount are post-war( my guess is ca. 1960s-70s), but may have used previous dovetail cut in receiver ring. As a "shot in the dark", you might ask the seller if he has an idea of where the original stock is. If it has been damaged, there are people that can repair almost anything.
Mike
Thank you Mike.
Very helpful. I bought this gun in 2004 from a shop so I assume the original owner is long lost, as is the original stock. It was also way before I came to learn that all those funny squiggles and marks on the action actually meant something. So, fat, dumb and happy I went on my merry way firing standard .323 slugs. I will slug the bore and see what turns up.
So, of the two serial numbers, how does one know which is the original? I would then assume the other (31579) might be from M&V.G. who, in this case, perhaps finished up an action from Mauser, yes? Finishing, further assumed, would be things like the stippling of the receiver, light engraving, fitting sights and/or mounts, etc., correct?
As always, much appreciated,
Hoot
Hoot,
We know from the research of others where the Mauser numbers will be found on those that they sold to "the trade", and I based my opinion on that. You could very well be correct that the other number is M&V.G. Since the barrel also has the Mauser number, it was likely sold by them as a barreled action, rather than a bare action. Mauser had patent rights and no one else could make them, so everyone had to buy from them. After WW1, the world was "awash" with surplus Mausers and most gunsmiths just used them. BTY American 8x57 ammo is loaded to be safe in the I bore guns, I have some Remington factory bullets that are really only .3215", instead of .323".
Mike
If a .323" bullet will slide easily into the mouth of an unsized fired case, you can continue to fire .323" bullets with no concern about excess pressure.
Usually chambers of older rifles cut exclusively for the 8X57J (.318 bullet)cartridge will not accept a cartridge loaded with a .323" bullet. My pre-War Sauer drilling in caliber 8X57JR will not accept an 8X57JRS cartridge in the chamber.
If one does, it is usually an indication that the chamber was cut that way intentionally to allow the use of either cartridge.
After new regulations were issued in the early 1930's, all Germsn 8X57 chambers were cut the same size, irrespective of the size of the bore,
The early "J" bore rifles had .319-.320 groove diameter, even though the bullets were .318. Xausa is correct that early rifles usually wouldn't accept .323 bullets; but they often accept .321 32 Win Special bullet hand loads or .3215 Remington 8x57 factory ammo( I don't have any Win.8mm bullets to check).
Mike
