I've been trying to help this young fella with his rifle and am stumped....there's a picture of the proofs on the underside of the barrel but I cannot figure out the proof date or the cartridge it was originally chambered to....or what some of the other numbers are. Mike, Axel, raimey....anyone got an idea?
Vic
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/hello-all-i-need-help-wth-a-antique-german-rifle.139540/
Vic:
I don't have an account there so I can only see the thumbnail images.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
hmmm...and I don't know how to capture the image and post it or send it to you....
Usually just right click & save.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Vic:
The 313 is the plug gauge stamp for the 6,25mm diameter.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Raimey,
My old eyes read that as 813. Since the two sets of numbers were stamped in different fonts, I opined it was relined. I think the originak proof was in the 8th month(I guess it could be 3rd) of 1913 in Zella-Mehilis, with ledger number 416.If I'm correct, it was relined and proofed in the 9th month 1975, with ledger number 22( 27).This can be verified, if a "repair" proof can be found on the side or ahead of the marks shown. I put a more extensive answer at the GGCA site. As always, I may be mistaken, and eagerly await someone correcting me.
Mike
My answer above, was based on the single photo in the GGCA site. I couldn't get the ones in the link above to "blow up", but based on the comments from Vic and the guy asking about it,it may very well be as raimey surmised, a 6.5mm of some type, from the 4th month of 1910.To determine more would require much better photos and slugging the bore and a chambercast. The scale of the bore in the photo of the muzzle seems larger than 6.5mm.
Mike
Yeah, Ford I'm just basing my response on text and nothing else. It is most difficult to make a stab at a sporting weapon with most complete info, which usually constitutes proper images.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Everybody, go to the German Gun Collectors Assn. site. Axel has weighed in with one of his well substantiated answers. We still need a chambercast.
Mike
Ah, we'll run one parallel when I receive the images as you never know what may happen to a site.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
The tube length is 72cm & the 27mm chamber depth has been verified.
So like Axel E. has stated, it is some 6,25mm x 27mm variant.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
6.5mmX27R variants:
6.5x27R Ronezewsky Target Pistol
6.5X27R Target Pistol
6.5mm Einzelladerbüchse -Single Loading Sporting Weapon - RWS D.R.G.M. 378433 - powder charge in paper envelopes for easy target loading at the event(Einzelladungen)
6.5X27R P Tesching
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
H. UTENDOERFFER NURNBERG
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Discussing one gun on two different Forums (doublegunshop and GGCA)and three different threads at the same time simply leads to confusion!
Axel, there may be a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I chose 2 & you chose 1 to propagate. I really don't think GGCA has the foundation for the long haul. NE probably is best as they archive most of their photos. Although DGS does not do that, I think Dave at DGS has the proper tools. I'd put my eggs in the DGS BBS for the long haul.
http://www.germanguns.com/upload/showthread.php?990-Stalking-rifle&p=3755#post3755GGCA cross-reference
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Interesting text on the powder packet - something like 0,5gr. Gelat. Rauchl. Troisdorfer Scheibenpulver 1912.
Snippet of page 88 of W.B. Dixon's text.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
August Stukenbrok Einbeck Advert circa 1913
Kal. P 27=6,5mm mit 0,6 g Blättchenpulver und Ganz oder Teilmantelgeschoß
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Synonyms for 6,5x27R are:
6,5 x 27 R
6,5 mm Einzelladerbüchse P 27/6,5 mm
DWM 463 A
6,5 x 27 P
DWM 476 GR 746
Regards,
Gunwolf
6,5 mm Einzelladerbüchse P 27/6,5 mm
Gunwolf, are you certain on this term/phrase? Have gotten a lot of static as it would seem that this phrase does not exist in German literature? 8,15 X 46 1/2 mm does but not 6,5mm x 27R.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Raimey,
The misunderstanding is caused by trying to use two different words to mean the same thing, which they do not. "Einzelladungen" is the term for the prepackaged loads for 8.15x46R, and "Einzelladerbuechse" is the term for a singleshot rifle.
Mike
I agree Ford & Wolfgang is scouring the bowels of the internet to see if something akin exists in German texts. Just wanted to point it out as error or not.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Raimey, Mike is right with the terms.
Here is a Matritzensatz for 6,5x27R. Funny, it's on a Czech site and is produced in the US:
the
http://de.strobl.cz/DS6.5x27R-ch4d-reloading-dies-1/and more synonyms:
6,5mmEinzelladerbüchse
6,5mmEINZELLADERBÜCHSE 332 6,5mmRonezewski
6,5mmRonezewski (mit Rand) 332 6,5mmRONEZEWSKY PISTOLE 332 6,5x27R P
6,5x27R P Tesching 332 6,5x27R Ronezewski 332 6,5x27R TESCHING
6,6x27,2R TESCHING
Cheers,
Gunwolf
I swear nothing can hide from the expertise on this forum!
As there was a rimless 6.5x27 too, meant for repeaters, the monicker "Einzellader" = single shot made sense for the rimmed 6.5x27R. Remember, before WW1 the now German cartridge designations (nominal caliber)x (case length)and "R" were not yet in common use. Cartridges were often called this way: 27/6,5 mit Rand (= 6.5x27R) or M88/9mm mit Rand (= 9x57R). Relating the name "6.5x27R Einzellader" to the Einzelladungen once available for the 8.15x46R shows insufficient familiarity with the German language. Likely Frank C. Barnes in Cartridges of the World started this misunderstanding and every other expert like Dixon simply copied it from this "authority".
Axel,
I'm not sure Frank Barnes is the real culprit. The way it reads, it seems he wrote the basic text and someone else sent him an erroneous "correction", which he seems to have added with the (*)astrisk. Of course, as editor, he would have been responsible anyway.As you well know, there are other errors in Cartridges of the World, started by contributors and not corrected by whoever was the editor at the time.Also editors sometimes introduce mistakes by adding making their own changes.As usual, I can be wrong.
Mike
